The Deceived Shall Stay Deceived

HOW DECEIVED PEOPLE CLING ON TO LIES

（1）Is Hell Eternal?
（2）Is Jesus Also The Father? Part 1
（3） Is Jesus Also The Father ?Part 2

A person can be very sincere about his beliefs and yet he remains wrong about what he has sincerely believed.  This is the essence of a deception.  A deceived person does not know he has been deceived.  If he knows, he would not want to remain deceived, would he?

And so it is with Christians.  Many, many Christians hold on to wrongful teachings and doctrines and think themselves right simply the people who taught them are trusted and qualified people.  Some Christians are just too lazy to do research and read the bible for themselves.  Others are fearful of finding out that they have been holding on to untruths taught to them by trusted people, and they wouldn’t know how to deal with these trusted people after that.  Yet there are also some who are easily confused when they discover contradictory positions and fear making decisions on what is right or wrong.  They then just hold fast to whatever they have accepted and refuse to budge, and they will resort to twisting and turning when confronted, as with the case shown below here.  And a deceived person can be so deceived that he will insist that he is a bible-believer when he actually doesn’t believe what the bible plainly says.

This abstract from a Facebook exchange of views over some scriptures is an illustration in case.  It is reproduced here without the intention to embarrass or ridicule anyone.  For that reason, I have disguised the names of key person involved in this exchange with me.

The main issues are on the questions of whether torment in hell fire is eternal, Trinity and who is Jesus.  Here goes:

 

Golda J’s original posting

Saturday at 3:06am ( 8 Apr 2012)

 

What a coward this Tom  Katta  is. He removed me from the group. Is this what you wanted to happen So-called Bible Believer?

Comments:

Golda J  He cannot have one decent discussion. And he calls himself a full time Bible translator. It is really a pity.

Chan Wang Tak : I had Jehovah Witnesses coming over to "teach" me bible study and then they all run away helter-skelter when they cannot defend their doctrines, but cannot let of the false beliefs that has been force-fed (brainwashed) into them. It takes the mercy of the Lord to open blinded minds. No reason to gripe, Golda when you see them running off. Tells you something, doesn't it?

So-called Bible Believer : He is not running off, he is sending off!! Chan, I'll bet, you cannot stand near JW though they have a few wrong doctrines!! I can never believe what you have written, that they will run helter-skelter. It needs some courage to accept the truth. Pentecostalism is another form of traditional church which has sprouted out of the two major traditional wings, RC and Protestants!!

( Omitted – not relevant comments )

Golda J  Yes Chan. Their behaviour speaks a lot about them. May God have mercy!

Chan Wang Tak  ‎@So-called Bible Believer: I see you take my meaning of "running helter-skelter" literally. I can stand JWs, that is why I invite them into my house without fail if they come knocking. I cannot stand their doctrines. Good of you to admit they have some... false doctrines. Now I believe you are not a JW, but one who shares many of their wrong doctrines anyway. It does take courage to accept the truth. Actually it takes humility because the ego is the first victim in a deceived person. And to correct you ( if you will be ), everything ends up being traditional after a while. Do you not think so? It will be nice if you will agree, not that you cannot.

Chan Wang Tak  Every cultist I have met knows what he believes. No cultist have come to me telling me something he doesn't believe in. Everyone of them is very sincere except he only doesn't know which of his beliefs are wrong. So, he is very sincere...ly wrong. When one is wrong, one cannot logically defend one's stand. That results in frustration and anger on his part and he usually strikes out with sarcasm, bad words or he retreats into his shell. I don't doubt their sincerity.  Saturday at 1:55pm

 

So-called Bible Believer As you share the Catholic Doctrines Chang!!  Saturday at 9:56pm ·

 

Chan Wang Tak Do I? What makes you think so? Care to elaborate? Saturday at 9:58pm · 

So-called Bible Believer Other than the idol worship you have everything in common!! The holy trinity, the fiery hell are more than enough!!  Saturday at 10:07pm · 

Chan Wang Tak So, it looks like you are again confirming your ignorance of scriptures. Good for you. When you want to learn about the awesomeness of the substance of God, just ask. Or else you can choose to stay ignorant and be smug about that ignorance. You don't have to believe in the fiery hell which torments forever but that doesn't mean it is not there. Saturday at 11:27pm  

So-called Bible Believer I believe the scriptures alone and not some man made theory on pagan fiery hell!! It suits well for you people to believe some substance of God out of scriptures, the pagan trinity!! What more!! Keep believing till you learn!! Good Night!! 23 hours ago · 

Chan Wang Tak This KJV verse is not meant for So-called Bible Believer who believes another bible : Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. Cheers! 16 hours ago  

So-called Bible Believer OK, so the lake of fire and brimstone cannot destroy something? What sort of KJV fire is that? I thought fire is able to destroy every bit of anything you put into it!! And mind you Chang, I refer KJV too which has more errors than the other translations. May be you people like to read errors more to support your erroneous doctrines!! Good luck for your Cheers!! 14 hours ago · 

Chan Wang Tak  Dear So-called Bible Believer, KJV has more errors than other translations. That shows you have been believing what other people tell you. You are not a researcher. You are also a strange species of "bible-believer" when you cannot read and understand t...he words "tormented day and night for ever and ever". You did not check back to find that the 2 beasts are to be thrown into the lake 1000 yrs before satan, and are still there burning and being tormented when the devil is thrown in later. You believe the bible only in the way you have been brainwashed to understand it. It is not your understanding. Heck, it is not your misunderstanding even. You inherited it from others. 7 hours ago

 

So-called Bible Believer  Can you show me a fire in which any object can stay for ever and ever.......!! If you have reasons pour in, and don't worry about my understanding or believing. I have much better foundation than you. You people speak of all words that will... not be found in scriptures and yet find fault in others understanding!!

You read the book of revelation literal wherein you will find even a beast being burned and tormented!! Any logic of a beast to be tormented? Please don't prove your understanding by quoting Revelation, which I'll prove you will be a BIG ZERO!! 7 hours ago · 

Chan Wang Tak  The sun? Gotcha! Anyway, that's not the point. The point is you claim you are bible believer when you are not. You use your own fallacious reasoning to over ride God's word. Incidentally Jesus also said that the fire is everlasting, re...: Mat 25:41 and when Jesus says so, I believe. You don't. Anyway I am answering you here only because I don't want other readers to be confused. I am sure they will check out the truth for themselves. I am not answering you not for the purpose of convincing you. You are beyond convincing because of the hardness of your heart; only the Holy Spirit can. Stay blind. Your choice. 6 hours ago

 

So-called Bible Believer Instead of proving a point you start judging others about their belief. Nothing more you know because you are all a team of hell mongers. Preserve your fire it will be useful for you to sit in!! I have long before left the idiotic belief wh...ich you have now. You are not answering here, you are still judging!! Be in your everlasting fire theory, hell mongers!! I am astonished to see only one constant liker for your silly comments which doesn't prove anything other than describing my faith!! I still say you will be a BIG ZERO in revelation!! 5 hours ago ·

 

Golda J We all do this to save you from hell fire!! So what about Matt 25:41?  5 hours ago ·

  

So-called Bible Believer There is one who has already saved me from hell (grave). so I am not interested in your assistance, you are all hell mongers, I know!! If you can understand Christ thru some "everlasting fire" that's your way of understanding, please excuse me, I understand the love of God thru Christ and I preach that!!

So-called Bible Believer ‎//Full time ministry should be done only if God specifically ask us to do// VSK and SSS are role models, perhaps!! Which God specifically asked them to do "Full time ministry"? At least not the God of scriptures, because he does not want characters of these sort!!  4 hours ago ·

 

Chan Wang Tak Hmmm. "Everlasting" doesn't mean everlasting. Yet you say you are a bible believer. "For ever" doesn't mean for ever. That's another great way to believe. And when you cannot explain or defend yourself, hurl names and insults. That's a great way to discuss things, too. Need I say more?4 hours ago ·

 

So-called Bible Believer You need not say anything more, cause I don't want to listen to your silly arguments which I left years back!! Please preach to those who have ears to hear you and not the scriptures!! So what were you doing so far? Describing my faith and ...belief, and now what's that? When it comes to you you start crying of hurling names and insults!! Please refer your previous comments and you can see that every first statement would be dedicated to my faith and belief!! You want to twist the facts and so you attack my faith and belief and my understanding. If that suits you, this too should suit you!! Good bye Mr Chan and God Bless you, the God of Scriptures and not the god of Hell mongers!! 4 hours ago · 

Chan Wang Tak You really have a great way to believe by unbelieving. Great way to end a discussion you cannot uphold too. Cheers, So-called Bible Believer. Like I said, I wasn't trying to convince you, just wanted those who read what you wrote to read also the truth so that they can choose. Cheers.  3 hours ago ·

 

So-called Bible Believer  If you really want to teach someone, please go ahead with your pagan faith!! And please don't again try to convince me. You have many threads to start teaching. And if you think you have "Chosen" some truth, I would say, I have left that lo...ng years back, and am into biblical truth!! My belief is in One God of the scriptures and not a trinity of some pagan origin!! So please Cherish and enjoy and grow in your faith and believes and just leave me alone!! I am quite satisfied in what I am!!

Chan Wang Tak So So-called Bible Believer, you have become steadfast in your faith in another gospel, another Jesus and an another spirit which is not the Holy Spirit. 2Co 11:4 For if he that cometh preacheth *another Jesus,* whom we have not preached, or if ye receive **another spirit,** which ye have not received, or *another gospel*, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.    

So-called Bible Believer  The Gospel does not have a word trinity or triune in it and if you think this is that other Gospel, well I am very much into your other Gospel. I have scriptures which state that Christ is Son of God more than n times, and if you think that... is the other Gospel, well I am very comfortable with what you call the other Gospel!! And I am least bothered about what you preach, what you have received and all that nonsense stuff!! I hope your followers or likers may be happy to listen to you or read your comments, I will be the last one!! You always meet cults, you always have encounters with JW or likes, so you think you have jumped out of some heaven? Please stop preaching me and I think that is enough!!  2 hours ago 

·

Chan Wang Tak This is not for So-called Bible Believer. I am NOT preaching to you. This is for other readers. You cannot be preached to. // 2Co 4:4 (For) the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them. // The bible does not have the word "bible" either.  2 hours ago ·

 

So-called Bible Believer Height of comedy folks!! If somebody is worshiping bible as trinity, then Chan might have impressed you with his intelligent finding!!  2 hours ago ·

Chan Wang Tak ‎(For) if he that cometh preacheth *another Jesus,* whom we have not preached, or if ye receive **another spirit,** which ye have not received, or *another gospel*, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him. The god of this world has surely blinded the minds of some, so that they think their "god" is the God of the bible.  about an hour ago ·

 

Chan Wang Tak So blind that they learn English and yet understand not English as English is read.  59 minutes ago · 

So-called Bible Believer Those who are blinded will never follow the God of the scriptures!! They follow a unscriptural triune god!! I believe and preach Christ as Son of God. But if you follow a triune God you cannot preach thus!!  55 minutes ago ·

 

Chan Wang Tak  This explanation is NOT for So-called Bible Believer. It is meant for those who might be confused by what his mind fails to understand. The mystery of the substance of God is a true mystery. Luke 4 clearly says Jesus is to be "called" the Son o...f God. Jehovah is the first and the last. So is Jesus. Jehovah is El Gibbor. So is Jesus. God raised Jesus. Jesus raised Himself. The Holy Spirit raised Jesus. Jehovah alone is the savior, yet Jesus is also the savior. Jehovah is the Lord of Lords, so is Jesus. Still cannot get it? No wonder it is called a mystery. It sure is a mystery to some.   49 minutes ago ·

 

Chan Wang Tak If you cannot understand, you cannot understand. Simple to the childlike believer, complex to the unbelieving believer  48 minutes ago

 

So-called Bible Believer   The oversmarts understand something which is not available in scriptures. Chan Wang Tak, enough of your nonsense preaching and teaching. Jehovah is El-Sheddai and Christ is El-Gibbor!! Ok.

Isaiah 9:6: Mighty God is El Gibbor!!

Gen 28:3 G...od Almighty is El Sheddai!!

Go to school before becoming a teacher!! And never try to underestimate others and overestimate yourself!! A Childlike believer may fall into your trap of teaching El Gibbor is Jehovah and So is Jesus theory and things of this sort!! God is not a God of confusion which you term as mystery!! If he is a mystery to you, you are into pagan worship!!  40 minutes ago ·

 

Chan Wang Tak Gotcha again!! Again, this verse is NOT for the unteachable. This verse is to show readers that the unteachable do not research. Here is just one of the verses that say that Jehovah is El Gibbor Mighty God. Jer 32:18 Thou shewest lovingkindness unto thousands, and recompensest the iniquity of the fathers into the bosom of their children after them: the Great, the Mighty God, the LORD of hosts, is his name.  30 minutes ago ·

 

Chan Wang Tak   That is why Christians must learn to read the bible on their own and do their own research instead of depending on others to teach them. Do not depend on reading magazine articles and circular letters either. Cults always use these materia...l to control what their members are to learn, to prevent members from learning the truth on their own by reading the bible. While we do learn from others' teachings and reading materials, we are spoon-fed a lot of nonsense. We then believe these nonsense and try to defend nonsense and end up being put to shame by the word of God.  24 minutes ago  

So-called Bible Believer   There is nothing wrong for an Almighty to be called a Mighty, but a Mighty cannot be Almighty!! Jehovah may be called El-Jibbor, but Christ as Mighty God cannot be El-Sheddai!! 14 minutes ago 

Chan Wang Tak   ‎???? That's a lame argument, don't you think? Ingeniously lame.  a few seconds ago  

Chan Wang Tak   When your arguments drops to this level, it is time to do some research on your own. Bye bye. It is 2 am here. I am going to sleep.

And so we see how blinded Mr. So-called Bible-Believer is.  Only the Holy Spirit can change him. But then, he does not believe in the Holy Spirit.  To him the Holy Spirit is an “it”.

He has obviously believed in another Jesus, another gospel and another spirit that 2Co 11:4 warned us about.  And whoever preaches another gospel is accursed!

Gal 1:8  But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. 

And surely as Jesus says in John 8:32, "And ye shall know the truth and the truth shall make you free."

NO ETERNAL PUNISHMENT ?

HOW CULTISTS TWIST, MANGLE AND IGNORE SCRIPTURES

 

Let me just answer the cultist’s with this one verse:

Rev 20:10  The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever

And because of this verse, all their arguments become so futile that nowadays, they had to resort to redefining the meaning of “forever and ever”.  And when they do, they make themselves look like even greater fools.

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I abstracted these arguments of a cultist from this page: http://www.remnantofgod.org/hellfire.htm .  I suspect this fellow is a 7th Day Adventist follower who is trying to conceal his origins.  Deceptive.  And he run a site without identifying himself.


And let me point out to you the ways in which cultists deceive, double-speak, ignore scriptures, twist words and meanings just so that they can deceive others.  Most of these cultist writers are actually minions in the cultist kingdom.  Their arguments are never original.  They simply regurgitate what they learned from their senior cultists.  Actually these minions are actually themselves deceived people.  I do not think these small fries intend to deceive you, for they themselves are deceived, just like the bible says:

2Ti 3:13  But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.

My response is made out in red.  I have edited out some of his ramblings which are too frivolous to answer to.  But whatever is reproduced here is totally unedited.


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Cultist: “One doctrine of devils that has had it's way in today's society with great ease it that of the doctrine that says there is a Hell that lasts for all of eternity and those residing do so in screams of torment. Most take a verse in Revelation chapter 14 out of context and preach a Hell that is a place of eternal torment. “  See how confidently he makes this statement?  Now read Rev 14, and you find nothing about screaming.  The verse merely gives symbolic expression of God’s wrath.  This is what I call regurgitation.
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Cultist: Some also take three repeated verses from Mark to proclaim their belief in a worm filled eternal torture chamber. But before discussing these verses, and many other verses that speak of hell. One needs to ask one question of themselves. Do they believe a God that would send His one and only Son to die a torturous and humiliating death would create a place that would be used for TORTURE for ALL eternity?  This is how cultist appeal to human emotions – “Do you believe your God is such a cruel God?  Aren’t you insulting your God?”.  So, would God create that horrible place called hell? The obvious biblical answer to this is YES!  God created it and the bible says so.  But God also said it was not created for mankind.  Instead,  God loved us so much that He sent Jesus to die a humiliating death so that we do not have to go to that horrible place, which was created for satan and his angels, not us. ( see Mat 25:41 ) Are you ashamed of what God has done?  I am not.  Are you? 
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Cultist: Does the character of God come off as a tyrant who enjoys hearing the screams of people who have decided not to worship Him? See the continued play on your emotions.  His trick is, he plays on your dread of being accused of calling God a tyrant, so that you will be forced to agree with him.  My answer to him is this: “No, God does not enjoy sending people to hell.  He has no pleasure in the death of the soul that dieth ( see Eze 18:32 ) ”.  Just remember that He did not create hell for mankind, but for satan.  But if wicked men choose to follow satan to hell rather than follow Jesus to heaven, He will allow it to happen.


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Cultist: I pray at this time that you will allow me to share with you some things of God's character as well as His Scripture that PROVE this "doctrine of a devil" is simply a lie to get billions upon billions throughout all of time to "blame" the Almighty and ever living God of all creation for creating such a place and sending them there. See again how the cultist twist the situation by continuing to ignore the bible verse that says that hell was not created for humankind, but for the devil?  See how he continues to ignore the accountability of man for following the way of the devil to hell, but continue to insist that wicked man goes to hell because God “sends” him there?

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Cultist: Not long ago I was in a conversation with a person about truth in Scriptures in a Newsgroup on the internet. He promptly told me that God was a tyrant, and a very hate-filled vengeful God.  I asked him why he believed that about his Creator. He replied, "Because He SENDS people to hell! I will never worship a God that would send people to such a place like that! A place were people go to be tortured for all of eternity screaming at the top of their lungs for ever!! How can He sit on His throne knowing that while all His "loved ones" are worshipping Him in their happy go lucky Heaven, there are countless BILLIONS in hell at that very moment writhing in a pain that cannot be described?!?!" I assured him that he has fallen for the oldest trick in the book. The devil has painted a picture of the Almighty for him that is the exact opposite of what His Word says He is like. For example. God does NOT send anyone to hell. Nor does He want to. See how the cultist continues to play on emotions?  He should be giving a straight answer to the newsgroup, that God does not send man to hell, but instead God even sent Jesus to provide the way out for man. But the cultist does not do what is right  because he thinks like the newsgroup people and agrees with them.  The cultist does not have the mind of Jesus.

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Cultist:  2Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. Here’s an example of quoting out of context.  This verse in its full context expresses God’s long-suffering to allow mankind full opportunities to escape …… but if he does not, God has no choice but to let them go with the devil to damnation!  This verse does not say that a righteous God will not punish.  This verse says that a righteous and just God is doing, and has been doing all He can for mankind not to go to eternal damnation.


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Cultist: James 1:13
Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:  See the word twisting here?  Is God doing evil by punishing evil?  This verse merely says that the evil that is in man is the cause of his own downfall, God did not put that evil into man!  This is how cultists take verses out of context to support their cause.



Cultist: No, the Lord God Almighty cannot be tempted of evil and He would not SEND you evil. Wrong! The Lord God Almighty is not sending you evil by allowing people to go to hell.  A righteous God punishes, but He warns before He punishes.  A just God even came to take the punishment upon Himself so that a wicked man can escape hell by receiving His gift and repenting.
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Cultist: The Almighty and ever living Creator did NOT create you to burn. He WANTS you to live!  This is the truth. This is how a cultist will mix truth with lies.  If he tells all lies, you would not believe him, would you? 


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Cultist: Jesus warns us in a loving way that there IS a hell. He warns us that YES the Earth and everything in it will BURN UP.   2Peter 3:10
But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. 
Here is another example of taking verses out of context.  This verse explains that God will destroy this sin-infested earth to be replaced by a new earth.  This verse has not connection to hell or the lake of fire. But the cultist will deceive you into connecting it to punishment.
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Cultist: The Almighty is NOT the one putting anyone in hell. Wrong!  God is putting wicked man to hell, but not because He wants to.  He puts the wicked man to hell because the wicked man chooses to follow the devil there!  (  Mat 25:41  Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: )  Why be ashamed of the righteousness of God?

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Cultist: The devil must make hell look like a VERY torturous place so that our view of God is altered into a view that is NOT merciful. Wrong!  It is God who makes it very clear that hell is a tortuous place so that man be made aware of it, and he will choose wisely.  The devil is using cultists to create a negative impression of God for creating such a tortuous place for him and his angels.
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Cultist: It is not a place where the devil rules See this lie? Where in the bible does it says that the devil rules in hell?  It is not a place of eternal torture See this outright denial of what the bible says, and playing on human emotions?  It "IS" a place of eternal death however. And death is ETERNAL SEPARATION from God and all that is salvation and happiness. See how truth is mixed with lies in order to deceive into believing his next misquotes  Notice the following verses... Remembering all the while, that this is NOT God's will for you or me or anyone to burn in hell.

Cultist: 2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.  Therefore, if someone choose not to repent, is it God’s fault ?
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Cultist: Ezekiel 18:32, "For I have no pleasure in the death of him that dieth, saith the Lord GOD: wherefore turn yourselves, and live ye."  See this truth?  But the cultist uses this for his own ends by taking it out in isolation.  This verse tells us that God has no pleasure in seeing souls die – which is correct!  But it does not say that God will not allow it to happen.  God will allow it if the evil man does not repent.
Cultist: John 3:36, "He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him."
And Hell is DEATH. Regardless of the fact that the Scriptures state that those that go to Hell "shall not see life," the world calls hell "eternal life" IN FIRE doesn't it? Yet the Bible says that the "wages of sin is death" Romans 6:23 How can this be eternal life in fire? How can this mean eternal life anywhere? Do you recall this from your studies? See how he deceives you with his play on the word life?  The bible says specifically that to burn in the lake of fire is the 2^nd death.  The 2^nd death does not mean that existence is extinguished.  The bible makes it so clear.  The cultist ignores the fact that the bible also says that living people who are without God have no life in them.  Does that mean the living people are therefore dead at the same time?  It is the nature of cultists to twist words to suit his argument,  and ignoring situations where the same words would expose his duplicity.
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Cultist: Genesis 3:4, "And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:"
The devil has been saying for 6000 years that WE WON'T DIE! This life in fire doctrine is no different than the serpant (sic)  in the tree. BOTH are openly declaring the Lord a liar! See how he mixes a truth with a lie again? See how he makes use of your dread of insulting God and using it to force you to agree with him?

Cultist: 2 Peter 2:9
The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished: 

Yes, we learned this earlier. The Lord will help us in times of temptation and deliver us out of it. But notice what happens to the "unjust" here. They are RESERVED unto the day of judgment to be PUNISHED. Notice what this verse is not saying here. It is NOT saying "PUNISH-ING" It is saying punished! See how he twisting the word "punishment" to be different from his self-created “punishing”?  Does cause you some confusion, doesn’t it.  That’s a typical cult argument technique.

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Cultist:  Matthew 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: He knows that hellfire is for the devil, and not for man, doesn’t he?  But he will ignore this, while using the same verse to suit his other purposes.

Cultist: "EVERLASTING FIRE?" Some use this verse to proclaim the fire will last forever and ever and ever and ever... But look at these verses using the same word "everlasting"

2 Thessalonians 1:8,9
In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;  Again, mixing truth with word twisting to confuse you to his side.  The 2^nd death is everlasting destruction … and do not be ashamed of it.  He is playing with the term everlasting fire lead you to agree with him that it is only the fire that is everlasting, and not the torment. Really devious.  Now, let me refer you a verse he conveniently ignores at this stage, but which he will use in another place to suit his purpose:

Rev 20:10  The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where^[2] the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

So, can you see that the bible disagrees with the cultist?  Can you see the bible says that “they will be tormented day and night forever and ever?”
Need I explain more to you?


Cultist: The result of the FIRE is and EVERLASTING DESTRUCTION. The wages of sin is DEATH not life eternal in hell fire!  See how he decides on his own (mis)understanding of the world death here?  Death here obviously mean eternal death, not the fleshly death he wants it to mean.   Life in hell fire would mean we have a mean and very angry God who enjoys the screams of billions of people for all eternity. See how he plays on your human emotions and sense of charity.  “Oh dear!  You and your God must be very cruel to ‘enjoy’ the screaming”.  Then you will find yourself trapped into agreeing with his next lie.   This is the devil's plan to get you to believe this is the character of God. The devil NEEDS you to look at God in this way!  That’s exactly what the devil is using this cultist to do.  No!  A just and righteous God will punish as it has been set from the beginning.  A just and righteous God has already provide the way out, by taking punishment upon Himself, and conquering death on our behalf.  We only have to accept the gift and follow Him.  If we do not, we are saying to Him “Let me go to hell like I want to”.

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Cultist: Matthew 25:46
And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal. 

Do you see the word everlasting PUNISH-MENT being used here by Jesus Himself to explain the fate of the wicked? If Jesus meant eternal punishING don't you think He would have said that? The Bible never counterdicts itself. Jesus meant what He said. The "wages of sin is death" Death is PERMANENT. Punish-ING is an "ongoing" process. This is not what Jesus said. Nor does any verse in His Word say this. Some even preach that yes, indeed, the "body" is killed in hell fire. But, the "soul" lives on for all eternity in flames of hell. If so, I challenge them to explain this simple and very easy to understand verse...   See the continued attempt to differentiate between ‘punishment’ and his attempt at confusing you with “punishing”?  Cultists can be ingenious with word twisting techniques.


Cultist: Malachi 4:1,3 : For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch. And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do [this], saith the LORD of hosts.  Here is another attempt to distract you by playing on the word “ashes” to mean physical destruction of the soul.  For a fact, you will notice that this verse says nothing about the soul.  Malachi was issuing a warning from God to the Israelites about their bodily destruction …… nothing to do with the soul.  You can so easily be deceived by their tossing of scriptures in isolation here and there.
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Cultist: And if Satan is running Hell and in control of the eternal torments of all those that reside in Hell, then why would the Word of God tell us in the following passage that Satan will burn up RIGHT BEFORE OUR EYES?
Ezekiel 28:17-18, "Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee. Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee."  See how he plays with words again?  He is trying to trick you into believing that that metaphorical expression ( ashes ) is a literal expression, but at the same time, keep the other metaphorical expression ( devour ) as metaphorical.  Very inconsistent, isn’t it? 


Cultist: Revelation14:11
And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

This verse in Revelation is favored by literally millions of preachers to prove hell is eternal punishING. Before proving what this verse means we must find out what the term "for ever" actually means to God when He says it. Understand first, God Almighty is an ETERNAL God and we, are a MORTAL people. Looking to Isaiah 34 you will see that the same language is used to describe the fate of Edom. 

Isaiah 34:9,10
And the streams thereof shall be turned into pitch, and the dust thereof into brimstone, and the land thereof shall become burning pitch. It shall not be quenched night nor day; the smoke thereof shall go up forever: from generation to generation it shall lie waste; none shall pass through it for ever and ever. Yes, this is poetic.  But does it mean Rev 14:11 is also poetic just because this Isaiah verse is?

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Cultist: Mark 9:48 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. 

The worm will live as long as it takes to finish the job. And the fire will NOT be quenched until the "fuel" is depleted.  See how he twist it to suit himself?  The verse says “the worm dieth not” but he added in his own meaning “The worm will live as long as it takes to finish the job” which the bible doesn’t say.
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Cultist: Exodus 21:6
Then his master shall bring him unto the judges; he shall also bring him to the door, or unto the door post; and his master shall bore his ear through with an awl; and he shall serve him for ever. 

Cultist: "SHALL SERVE HIM FOR EVER"???? How is this possible? What happens when the slave DIES? Another attempt at taking verses out of context.  “Forever” is also used in the context of one’s lifetime, and not always in the immortal eternal sense only.  Each incident of use must be interpreted to the context.  The context in his verse is clearly referring to the lifetime of the slave.  Cultist can get pretty tedious in their vain efforts to deceive

Cultist:
That's right. The definition of FOR EVER is not eternity. Of course not!   When the slave dies his master no longer has his service. And that is correct. But when God uses forever in the context of eternal life and eternal death, He does mean “eternity”.
Cultist: By the way.. If Hell is for eternity, then why did Jesus only stay dead three days?  If Jesus stays dead forever, are you saved?  He obviously cannot understand the power of God over death.  Was He not to be our perfect Saviour and sacrifice for sin? If the wages of sin is death, then Christ died for us, and that's that. See how he tries to confuse you by ignoring the power of God over death with this argument?  Or maybe he really doesn’t know, which is why this cultist is deceived.  

Jesus says in John 8:32, "And ye shall know the truth and the truth shall make you free."