The Deceived Shall Stay Deceived

HOW DECEIVED PEOPLE CLING ON TO LIES

（1）Is Hell Eternal?
（2）Is Jesus Also The Father? Part 1
（3） Is Jesus Also The Father ?Part 2

A person can be very sincere about his beliefs and yet he remains wrong about what he has sincerely believed.  This is the essence of a deception.  A deceived person does not know he has been deceived.  If he knows, he would not want to remain deceived, would he?

And so it is with Christians.  Many, many Christians hold on to wrongful teachings and doctrines and think themselves right simply the people who taught them are trusted and qualified people.  Some Christians are just too lazy to do research and read the bible for themselves.  Others are fearful of finding out that they have been holding on to untruths taught to them by trusted people, and they wouldn’t know how to deal with these trusted people after that.  Yet there are also some who are easily confused when they discover contradictory positions and fear making decisions on what is right or wrong.  They then just hold fast to whatever they have accepted and refuse to budge, and they will resort to twisting and turning when confronted, as with the case shown below here.  And a deceived person can be so deceived that he will insist that he is a bible-believer when he actually doesn’t believe what the bible plainly says.

This abstract from a Facebook exchange of views over some scriptures is an illustration in case.  It is reproduced here without the intention to embarrass or ridicule anyone.  For that reason, I have disguised the names of key person involved in this exchange with me.

The main issues are on the questions of whether torment in hell fire is eternal, Trinity and who is Jesus.  Here goes:

 

Golda J’s original posting

Saturday at 3:06am ( 8 Apr 2012)

 

What a coward this Tom  Katta  is. He removed me from the group. Is this what you wanted to happen So-called Bible Believer?

Comments:

Golda J  He cannot have one decent discussion. And he calls himself a full time Bible translator. It is really a pity.

Chan Wang Tak : I had Jehovah Witnesses coming over to "teach" me bible study and then they all run away helter-skelter when they cannot defend their doctrines, but cannot let of the false beliefs that has been force-fed (brainwashed) into them. It takes the mercy of the Lord to open blinded minds. No reason to gripe, Golda when you see them running off. Tells you something, doesn't it?

So-called Bible Believer : He is not running off, he is sending off!! Chan, I'll bet, you cannot stand near JW though they have a few wrong doctrines!! I can never believe what you have written, that they will run helter-skelter. It needs some courage to accept the truth. Pentecostalism is another form of traditional church which has sprouted out of the two major traditional wings, RC and Protestants!!

( Omitted – not relevant comments )

Golda J  Yes Chan. Their behaviour speaks a lot about them. May God have mercy!

Chan Wang Tak  ‎@So-called Bible Believer: I see you take my meaning of "running helter-skelter" literally. I can stand JWs, that is why I invite them into my house without fail if they come knocking. I cannot stand their doctrines. Good of you to admit they have some... false doctrines. Now I believe you are not a JW, but one who shares many of their wrong doctrines anyway. It does take courage to accept the truth. Actually it takes humility because the ego is the first victim in a deceived person. And to correct you ( if you will be ), everything ends up being traditional after a while. Do you not think so? It will be nice if you will agree, not that you cannot.

Chan Wang Tak  Every cultist I have met knows what he believes. No cultist have come to me telling me something he doesn't believe in. Everyone of them is very sincere except he only doesn't know which of his beliefs are wrong. So, he is very sincere...ly wrong. When one is wrong, one cannot logically defend one's stand. That results in frustration and anger on his part and he usually strikes out with sarcasm, bad words or he retreats into his shell. I don't doubt their sincerity.  Saturday at 1:55pm

 

So-called Bible Believer As you share the Catholic Doctrines Chang!!  Saturday at 9:56pm ·

 

Chan Wang Tak Do I? What makes you think so? Care to elaborate? Saturday at 9:58pm · 

So-called Bible Believer Other than the idol worship you have everything in common!! The holy trinity, the fiery hell are more than enough!!  Saturday at 10:07pm · 

Chan Wang Tak So, it looks like you are again confirming your ignorance of scriptures. Good for you. When you want to learn about the awesomeness of the substance of God, just ask. Or else you can choose to stay ignorant and be smug about that ignorance. You don't have to believe in the fiery hell which torments forever but that doesn't mean it is not there. Saturday at 11:27pm  

So-called Bible Believer I believe the scriptures alone and not some man made theory on pagan fiery hell!! It suits well for you people to believe some substance of God out of scriptures, the pagan trinity!! What more!! Keep believing till you learn!! Good Night!! 23 hours ago · 

Chan Wang Tak This KJV verse is not meant for So-called Bible Believer who believes another bible : Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. Cheers! 16 hours ago  

So-called Bible Believer OK, so the lake of fire and brimstone cannot destroy something? What sort of KJV fire is that? I thought fire is able to destroy every bit of anything you put into it!! And mind you Chang, I refer KJV too which has more errors than the other translations. May be you people like to read errors more to support your erroneous doctrines!! Good luck for your Cheers!! 14 hours ago · 

Chan Wang Tak  Dear So-called Bible Believer, KJV has more errors than other translations. That shows you have been believing what other people tell you. You are not a researcher. You are also a strange species of "bible-believer" when you cannot read and understand t...he words "tormented day and night for ever and ever". You did not check back to find that the 2 beasts are to be thrown into the lake 1000 yrs before satan, and are still there burning and being tormented when the devil is thrown in later. You believe the bible only in the way you have been brainwashed to understand it. It is not your understanding. Heck, it is not your misunderstanding even. You inherited it from others. 7 hours ago

 

So-called Bible Believer  Can you show me a fire in which any object can stay for ever and ever.......!! If you have reasons pour in, and don't worry about my understanding or believing. I have much better foundation than you. You people speak of all words that will... not be found in scriptures and yet find fault in others understanding!!

You read the book of revelation literal wherein you will find even a beast being burned and tormented!! Any logic of a beast to be tormented? Please don't prove your understanding by quoting Revelation, which I'll prove you will be a BIG ZERO!! 7 hours ago · 

Chan Wang Tak  The sun? Gotcha! Anyway, that's not the point. The point is you claim you are bible believer when you are not. You use your own fallacious reasoning to over ride God's word. Incidentally Jesus also said that the fire is everlasting, re...: Mat 25:41 and when Jesus says so, I believe. You don't. Anyway I am answering you here only because I don't want other readers to be confused. I am sure they will check out the truth for themselves. I am not answering you not for the purpose of convincing you. You are beyond convincing because of the hardness of your heart; only the Holy Spirit can. Stay blind. Your choice. 6 hours ago

 

So-called Bible Believer Instead of proving a point you start judging others about their belief. Nothing more you know because you are all a team of hell mongers. Preserve your fire it will be useful for you to sit in!! I have long before left the idiotic belief wh...ich you have now. You are not answering here, you are still judging!! Be in your everlasting fire theory, hell mongers!! I am astonished to see only one constant liker for your silly comments which doesn't prove anything other than describing my faith!! I still say you will be a BIG ZERO in revelation!! 5 hours ago ·

 

Golda J We all do this to save you from hell fire!! So what about Matt 25:41?  5 hours ago ·

  

So-called Bible Believer There is one who has already saved me from hell (grave). so I am not interested in your assistance, you are all hell mongers, I know!! If you can understand Christ thru some "everlasting fire" that's your way of understanding, please excuse me, I understand the love of God thru Christ and I preach that!!

So-called Bible Believer ‎//Full time ministry should be done only if God specifically ask us to do// VSK and SSS are role models, perhaps!! Which God specifically asked them to do "Full time ministry"? At least not the God of scriptures, because he does not want characters of these sort!!  4 hours ago ·

 

Chan Wang Tak Hmmm. "Everlasting" doesn't mean everlasting. Yet you say you are a bible believer. "For ever" doesn't mean for ever. That's another great way to believe. And when you cannot explain or defend yourself, hurl names and insults. That's a great way to discuss things, too. Need I say more?4 hours ago ·

 

So-called Bible Believer You need not say anything more, cause I don't want to listen to your silly arguments which I left years back!! Please preach to those who have ears to hear you and not the scriptures!! So what were you doing so far? Describing my faith and ...belief, and now what's that? When it comes to you you start crying of hurling names and insults!! Please refer your previous comments and you can see that every first statement would be dedicated to my faith and belief!! You want to twist the facts and so you attack my faith and belief and my understanding. If that suits you, this too should suit you!! Good bye Mr Chan and God Bless you, the God of Scriptures and not the god of Hell mongers!! 4 hours ago · 

Chan Wang Tak You really have a great way to believe by unbelieving. Great way to end a discussion you cannot uphold too. Cheers, So-called Bible Believer. Like I said, I wasn't trying to convince you, just wanted those who read what you wrote to read also the truth so that they can choose. Cheers.  3 hours ago ·

 

So-called Bible Believer  If you really want to teach someone, please go ahead with your pagan faith!! And please don't again try to convince me. You have many threads to start teaching. And if you think you have "Chosen" some truth, I would say, I have left that lo...ng years back, and am into biblical truth!! My belief is in One God of the scriptures and not a trinity of some pagan origin!! So please Cherish and enjoy and grow in your faith and believes and just leave me alone!! I am quite satisfied in what I am!!

Chan Wang Tak So So-called Bible Believer, you have become steadfast in your faith in another gospel, another Jesus and an another spirit which is not the Holy Spirit. 2Co 11:4 For if he that cometh preacheth *another Jesus,* whom we have not preached, or if ye receive **another spirit,** which ye have not received, or *another gospel*, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.    

So-called Bible Believer  The Gospel does not have a word trinity or triune in it and if you think this is that other Gospel, well I am very much into your other Gospel. I have scriptures which state that Christ is Son of God more than n times, and if you think that... is the other Gospel, well I am very comfortable with what you call the other Gospel!! And I am least bothered about what you preach, what you have received and all that nonsense stuff!! I hope your followers or likers may be happy to listen to you or read your comments, I will be the last one!! You always meet cults, you always have encounters with JW or likes, so you think you have jumped out of some heaven? Please stop preaching me and I think that is enough!!  2 hours ago 

·

Chan Wang Tak This is not for So-called Bible Believer. I am NOT preaching to you. This is for other readers. You cannot be preached to. // 2Co 4:4 (For) the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them. // The bible does not have the word "bible" either.  2 hours ago ·

 

So-called Bible Believer Height of comedy folks!! If somebody is worshiping bible as trinity, then Chan might have impressed you with his intelligent finding!!  2 hours ago ·

Chan Wang Tak ‎(For) if he that cometh preacheth *another Jesus,* whom we have not preached, or if ye receive **another spirit,** which ye have not received, or *another gospel*, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him. The god of this world has surely blinded the minds of some, so that they think their "god" is the God of the bible.  about an hour ago ·

 

Chan Wang Tak So blind that they learn English and yet understand not English as English is read.  59 minutes ago · 

So-called Bible Believer Those who are blinded will never follow the God of the scriptures!! They follow a unscriptural triune god!! I believe and preach Christ as Son of God. But if you follow a triune God you cannot preach thus!!  55 minutes ago ·

 

Chan Wang Tak  This explanation is NOT for So-called Bible Believer. It is meant for those who might be confused by what his mind fails to understand. The mystery of the substance of God is a true mystery. Luke 4 clearly says Jesus is to be "called" the Son o...f God. Jehovah is the first and the last. So is Jesus. Jehovah is El Gibbor. So is Jesus. God raised Jesus. Jesus raised Himself. The Holy Spirit raised Jesus. Jehovah alone is the savior, yet Jesus is also the savior. Jehovah is the Lord of Lords, so is Jesus. Still cannot get it? No wonder it is called a mystery. It sure is a mystery to some.   49 minutes ago ·

 

Chan Wang Tak If you cannot understand, you cannot understand. Simple to the childlike believer, complex to the unbelieving believer  48 minutes ago

 

So-called Bible Believer   The oversmarts understand something which is not available in scriptures. Chan Wang Tak, enough of your nonsense preaching and teaching. Jehovah is El-Sheddai and Christ is El-Gibbor!! Ok.

Isaiah 9:6: Mighty God is El Gibbor!!

Gen 28:3 G...od Almighty is El Sheddai!!

Go to school before becoming a teacher!! And never try to underestimate others and overestimate yourself!! A Childlike believer may fall into your trap of teaching El Gibbor is Jehovah and So is Jesus theory and things of this sort!! God is not a God of confusion which you term as mystery!! If he is a mystery to you, you are into pagan worship!!  40 minutes ago ·

 

Chan Wang Tak Gotcha again!! Again, this verse is NOT for the unteachable. This verse is to show readers that the unteachable do not research. Here is just one of the verses that say that Jehovah is El Gibbor Mighty God. Jer 32:18 Thou shewest lovingkindness unto thousands, and recompensest the iniquity of the fathers into the bosom of their children after them: the Great, the Mighty God, the LORD of hosts, is his name.  30 minutes ago ·

 

Chan Wang Tak   That is why Christians must learn to read the bible on their own and do their own research instead of depending on others to teach them. Do not depend on reading magazine articles and circular letters either. Cults always use these materia...l to control what their members are to learn, to prevent members from learning the truth on their own by reading the bible. While we do learn from others' teachings and reading materials, we are spoon-fed a lot of nonsense. We then believe these nonsense and try to defend nonsense and end up being put to shame by the word of God.  24 minutes ago  

So-called Bible Believer   There is nothing wrong for an Almighty to be called a Mighty, but a Mighty cannot be Almighty!! Jehovah may be called El-Jibbor, but Christ as Mighty God cannot be El-Sheddai!! 14 minutes ago 

Chan Wang Tak   ‎???? That's a lame argument, don't you think? Ingeniously lame.  a few seconds ago  

Chan Wang Tak   When your arguments drops to this level, it is time to do some research on your own. Bye bye. It is 2 am here. I am going to sleep.

And so we see how blinded Mr. So-called Bible-Believer is.  Only the Holy Spirit can change him. But then, he does not believe in the Holy Spirit.  To him the Holy Spirit is an “it”.

He has obviously believed in another Jesus, another gospel and another spirit that 2Co 11:4 warned us about.  And whoever preaches another gospel is accursed!

Gal 1:8  But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. 

And surely as Jesus says in John 8:32, "And ye shall know the truth and the truth shall make you free."

Is Jesus Christ Also the Father? Part 2

The Unwillingness To Accept God's Word As It Stands

Read also:

Is Jesus Christ Also the Father? Part 1

Further to the earlier article on the same topic, I have cut and pasted below here 3  replies to my questions from someone who tries to argue away that the Jewish word “ab” for “father” does not mean father but something else, claiming ancient Jewish cultural usage.  He then tries to apply a similar argument with the Greek word for  patēr ^G3962. .  Pater is used 372 times in the New Testament, and like the Hebrew word for father,  Ab ^H1 it is the only word used to refer to father.  So, the 3 replies appear to me to be very contrived attempts to mold and massage the meaning of bible words and verses to fit into one's own pre-conceived notions, rather than let the words speak for themselves.

In the 1^st reply, the writer claimed a “mistranslation”, but then he went on to point out the mistranslation is on the word “wonderful” which should be “pele”, not on the word father.  Well, I am not contending the word wonderful.  I am contending the reference of “Father” as applied to the Son.  Is it for us to say that God is unable to manifest Himself in any way He wants?  Is He not OMNIPOTENT?  Is God so small in our eyes that we can limit Him according to our little brain size?

You will notice that all the replies made no attempt to provide an alternative word for father, whether in Hebrew or Greek.  All attempts simply insist that there is another cultural use for the word father.  All attempts ignore the fact that there is only one word-form used for father, whether in Hebrew or Greek.  Of course we all know that there is always a cultural use of the word father in almost all languages.  As examples, we use “Bapa Malaysia” for Father of Malaysia in Malay.  We use “guofu” （国父） in Chinese for  Father of the Nation.  So, what does that prove?

The writer in one of his emails also objected to my calling the appearance of Jesus and Holy Spirit as "manifestations", saying: 

"All three are eternal existing together so how can they be manifestations? and which one is tthe actual substanvce id all three are manifestations, is this too deep or is it logical."

To his objection, I will now quote 3 verses to rebut him.

1. 1Jn 1:2  (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us;)

2. 1Jn 3:5  And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.

3. 1Jn 3:8  He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

So you can see, the writer is convinced by his own beliefs that he failed to see that the bible had called the appearance of Jesus as manifestation.  So am I wrong, or is the writer of the emails wrong?

Therefore, I am honestly very unconvinced by the explanation given by these emails.  Now, you give the emails go and see if you can be convinced by them. 

Well, here are the 2 definitions from the Strong’s dictionary:

Hebrew word for father:

Strong’s reference : H1

Hebrew writing : אב

Transliterated as : 'âb

Pronounced as: awb

Meaning: A primitive word; father in a literal and immediate, or figurative and remote application: - chief, (fore-) father ([-less]), X patrimony, principal. Compare names in “Abi-”

Greek word for father: 

Strong’s reference : G3962

Greek writing : πατήρ

Transliterated as : patēr

Pronounced as: pat-ayr'

Meaning: Apparently a primary word; a “father” (literally or figuratively, near or more remote): - father, parent.

---------------------------------------------------------

( Unedited )

1^st Reply

From    administrator@letusreason.org

To        Chan Wangtak <cwangtak@gmail.com>

Date     Sat, Jul 10, 2010 at 4:32 AM

Subject Re: Jesus not the Father?

Greetings   Chan,

this is a mistranslation  it actually reads in the Hebrew

Isa.9:6 says, He is the everlasting Father. It is speaking of the Son who is called Wonderful (Hebrew- Pele); this word is exclusively used of God alone. It means unable to comprehend, indescribable.

How can a “Son” be called an “everlasting Father”? The word “Father” (Heb. Ab) is not used in the begetting sense. It refers to the pre-incarnate Christ as Creator. The son in Hebrew  is called Abi-Ad the Father of eternity. ” meaning He is eternal, that He is the source of eternal life. He is also called the Prince of Peace a term never used of the Father since it is a Son who is a prince. The phrase “father of” needs to be distinguished from the person who Jesus calls “Father.”

The Father and Son is a relationship term,  all three are one as God but not as persons.

In Christs service, Mike O

Reply No:2

From: administrator@letusreason.org

To: Chan Wangtak <cwangtak@gmail.com>

Date : Sat, Jul 10, 2010 at 12:38 PM

Subject: Re: Jesus not the Father?

Greetings   ,

 Well i have been brought up reading hebrew and that does not make me a scholar but it has me know more than just surface level arguments by those who are have embraced a false teaching.

when abi ad is combined there is more to it

 when we are speaking of father of something or THE Father it is a completely different matter. let me explain further

Among the ancient Hebrews the term Father of, was always used to indicate Him who possessed the thing that followed.  God the Father is called the Father of Spirits (Heb.12:9) and the Father of lights (James.1:17).  This again does not mean a literal begetting of light nor Spirits. It shows God’s ownership and being the source of life. The Father of lights is a term interpreted in Judaism to mean He is the source of the moon, the sun and stars. For example the ‘Father of” strength means strong; the ‘Father of” knowledge-means intelligent, the ‘Father of” peace means peaceful, the ‘Father of” glory means glorious. So the Son is called more accurately the “Father of eternity,” meaning He is eternal, that He is the source of eternal life

Just as Jesus said to the Pharisees you are of your father the devil

The phrase “father of” needs to be distinguished from the person who Jesus calls “Father.”Just as the son is to be distinguished from the father.

To be called the Father there must be a Son. Which means he too is also pre-existent, and both eternally exist at the same time that is John 17 as john 1-The word was WITH God

John 17:5 "And now, O Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was.

He was with the father in glory before anything was created,. that means Jesus who is the son is God just as the Father is God. Thats two isn't it.He does not say I'm the father before world began but WITH the FATHER

 John 8:42: “I proceeded forth and came from God, nor have I come of myself but He sent me.”

The Fathe r sent him, not himself Jeuss make this clear  n Jn.16:28 “I came forth FROM the Father and have come into the world. Again, I will leave the World and go to the Father.”

In Christs service, Mike O

Reply No:3

Greetings  Chan ,

it has nothing to do with east or west though but being biblical. God manifested himslf not as forms , you cannot find this anywhere. I suggest you read our oneness articlkes becvause as far asi'm concerned you fell for this hook line and sinker ( a western phrase)

 the bible says  he manifested as the son of Gods - ONLY.

All three are eternal existing together so how can they be manifestations? and which one is tthe actual substanvce id all three are manifestations, is this too deep or is it logical.

yes one can not have salvation if they distort God's nature of the Triunity,  and yes if one denies the father and the son the bible says they are antichrist, do you read your bible?

 write me after you have read the articles and we can discuss any obstacles, until then please read.

In Christs service, Mike O

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Are you convinced?  Can you even understand the “run-you-around” arguments?  Can you see how a bible-educated person can be so brainwashed by previously drilled-in knowledge that he will try to devise all manners of unfruitful defense to protect what he has believed?

Jesus says in John 8:32 “ And ye shall know the truth and the truth shall make you free”.

Is Jesus Christ also the Father? Part 1

Word Twisting By Theologians

Read also:
Is Jesus Christ also the Father? Part 2

If, at the end of reading this you do not agree with me, fine! I will appreciate it though if you care to reason against me, scripturally.  If I am wrong, I am ready to stand corrected. 

I have been labeled a heretic for raising this matter once, and not by just one person.  So, am I really a heretic? All I know of myself is this: I am a bible-believing Christian.  Therefore, what does the bible say about the matter is what matters.  But then, do Christians really believe the bible, or do Christians believe the theologians and their acrobatical word-twisting?  Actually, you will find that Christians choose to believe more in falliable man then our infalliable God.  Christians believe theologians know better than God.  It is the theologians who interpret God to them since God is incapable of revealing Himself.

Now, theologians have firmly established their limited (not God's ) and inviolable doctrine of the Trinity as depicted in the diagram below :

This is summarized ( in my own untrained and simple way ) as : “There is ONE God. This God has shown Himself in 3 separate forms, i.e. as the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.  All  3 are distinct persons, and one is not the other, yet all three are that ONE God”.  This, I too believe. And therefore, am I not a believer in the concept of the Trinity?  Yes, I am.

Now, to the theologians, to say that the Son is actually also the Father, or the Holy Spirit is the Son and also the Father is blasphemy.  Some theologians even say that if we do not accept their interpretation of the Trinity, then we will go to hell.  Well, the bible did not say that. The theologians did, and they have made themselves god.  As far as I know, the bible tells me that the way to heaven is to believe in Jesus and to obey Him.  It does not say that to disbelieve the theologians, one can go to hell.

Now, why was I called a heretic?  It is all because I showed them this verse in the bible, viz:-

Isa 9:6  For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

WHAT ???? The bible says the son ( which everybody agrees is Jesus ) shall be called the everlasting Father?  So, what have the great theologians with their beautifully framed certificates to say?  What do the bible college -trained pastors and teachers have to say to that?  Well, some just go silent and hmm and hum their way around.  Others immediately go into a mild hysteria, snarl and accuse me of heresy ( Hey! Explain the verse!  I did not put that verse into Isaiah’s mouth. God did!) And the more gracious ones do the acrobatic semantics with me.  “ Ah …my friend, you fail to understand ( hidden meaning "you are stupid").  You must read the Hebrew word ( hidden meaning "I am trained, and you are not, that's why you are stupid" ).  The original word does not mean father as in the case of father.  It means something else.  You see, Abraham was also called the father of faith.  That’s the father meant.  Jesus is the father of eternity, not God the Father.  Do you understand?”.  Well, so says one white-man pastor in his email reply to my question.

No.  I don't see.  No, I don’t understand..  I only know that the Hebrew dictionary says that “awb” (refer to H1 in the Strong’s dictionary, since you want to play the word game ) is the word for father, in the literal sense.   It appears 644 times in the King James Version, and it is the only word used to mean father.  So don’t you go round telling me your cock-and-bull invention and twisting of the word father.  Father is father. Period.  The bible says so.

You see, the theologians have made God into something lesser than the omnipotent Being that He is.  In their conceited logic, the Father can only be the Father, the Son can only be the Son, the Holy Spirit is the Holy Spirit.  And trinity is to be in this form only in their inviolable mighty opinion.  Their form of trinity is a limited form.  One cannot be the other, and yet they are all the same God.  But in their effort to protect their teaching, they deny the simple and obvious meaning of the word father in Isa 9:6, and go on to declare everybody who chooses to believe God and not them to be heretics. They gave themselves the power to send dissenters to hell.  To make themselves look academic, they even invented a word “Modalism” for describing Father, Son and Holy Spirit as being the one and the same.

But you are wrong.  The bible does say the son shall be called the everlasting Father, with a capitalized F.  My God is an omnipotent God.  He can do all things ( except to be unholy and unrighteous ).  The Father can be separate from the Son and the Holy Spirit, and yet He can be the all three at the same time.  He can do ALL things. This is the true Trinity - 3 separate persons, and one single person at the same time.  He can be modalistic and He can be separate. That’s is how incomprehensible His essence is, to my puny brain.  Can I understand how He can do that.  Of course I can’t.

And of course your less-than-omnipotent god cannot do what my Almighty God can do. My Almighty God is almighty.  Call me a heretic if you want.  I choose to believe the bible, in the word of God.  I choose not to believe you.

And neither do I agree with the Oneness Pentecostals who cannot see the distinctness of the the 3 separate manifestations.  I see both sides.  And whether a person understands the true essence of Trinity or not does not affect your salvation.  Salvation is by faith in the blood sacrifice through the person of Jesus.  Salvation is not by possessing the exact understanding of the essence of a big and mighty God who is outside my grasp.  If I cannot understand the concept of the 4th dimension, how can I understand the meaning of Him who is outside of all dimensions?

Over to you.

Jesus says, in John 8:32 “And you shall know the truth and the truth shall make you free.