The Deceived Shall Stay Deceived

HOW DECEIVED PEOPLE CLING ON TO LIES

（1）Is Hell Eternal?
（2）Is Jesus Also The Father? Part 1
（3） Is Jesus Also The Father ?Part 2

A person can be very sincere about his beliefs and yet he remains wrong about what he has sincerely believed.  This is the essence of a deception.  A deceived person does not know he has been deceived.  If he knows, he would not want to remain deceived, would he?

And so it is with Christians.  Many, many Christians hold on to wrongful teachings and doctrines and think themselves right simply the people who taught them are trusted and qualified people.  Some Christians are just too lazy to do research and read the bible for themselves.  Others are fearful of finding out that they have been holding on to untruths taught to them by trusted people, and they wouldn’t know how to deal with these trusted people after that.  Yet there are also some who are easily confused when they discover contradictory positions and fear making decisions on what is right or wrong.  They then just hold fast to whatever they have accepted and refuse to budge, and they will resort to twisting and turning when confronted, as with the case shown below here.  And a deceived person can be so deceived that he will insist that he is a bible-believer when he actually doesn’t believe what the bible plainly says.

This abstract from a Facebook exchange of views over some scriptures is an illustration in case.  It is reproduced here without the intention to embarrass or ridicule anyone.  For that reason, I have disguised the names of key person involved in this exchange with me.

The main issues are on the questions of whether torment in hell fire is eternal, Trinity and who is Jesus.  Here goes:

 

Golda J’s original posting

Saturday at 3:06am ( 8 Apr 2012)

 

What a coward this Tom  Katta  is. He removed me from the group. Is this what you wanted to happen So-called Bible Believer?

Comments:

Golda J  He cannot have one decent discussion. And he calls himself a full time Bible translator. It is really a pity.

Chan Wang Tak : I had Jehovah Witnesses coming over to "teach" me bible study and then they all run away helter-skelter when they cannot defend their doctrines, but cannot let of the false beliefs that has been force-fed (brainwashed) into them. It takes the mercy of the Lord to open blinded minds. No reason to gripe, Golda when you see them running off. Tells you something, doesn't it?

So-called Bible Believer : He is not running off, he is sending off!! Chan, I'll bet, you cannot stand near JW though they have a few wrong doctrines!! I can never believe what you have written, that they will run helter-skelter. It needs some courage to accept the truth. Pentecostalism is another form of traditional church which has sprouted out of the two major traditional wings, RC and Protestants!!

( Omitted – not relevant comments )

Golda J  Yes Chan. Their behaviour speaks a lot about them. May God have mercy!

Chan Wang Tak  ‎@So-called Bible Believer: I see you take my meaning of "running helter-skelter" literally. I can stand JWs, that is why I invite them into my house without fail if they come knocking. I cannot stand their doctrines. Good of you to admit they have some... false doctrines. Now I believe you are not a JW, but one who shares many of their wrong doctrines anyway. It does take courage to accept the truth. Actually it takes humility because the ego is the first victim in a deceived person. And to correct you ( if you will be ), everything ends up being traditional after a while. Do you not think so? It will be nice if you will agree, not that you cannot.

Chan Wang Tak  Every cultist I have met knows what he believes. No cultist have come to me telling me something he doesn't believe in. Everyone of them is very sincere except he only doesn't know which of his beliefs are wrong. So, he is very sincere...ly wrong. When one is wrong, one cannot logically defend one's stand. That results in frustration and anger on his part and he usually strikes out with sarcasm, bad words or he retreats into his shell. I don't doubt their sincerity.  Saturday at 1:55pm

 

So-called Bible Believer As you share the Catholic Doctrines Chang!!  Saturday at 9:56pm ·

 

Chan Wang Tak Do I? What makes you think so? Care to elaborate? Saturday at 9:58pm · 

So-called Bible Believer Other than the idol worship you have everything in common!! The holy trinity, the fiery hell are more than enough!!  Saturday at 10:07pm · 

Chan Wang Tak So, it looks like you are again confirming your ignorance of scriptures. Good for you. When you want to learn about the awesomeness of the substance of God, just ask. Or else you can choose to stay ignorant and be smug about that ignorance. You don't have to believe in the fiery hell which torments forever but that doesn't mean it is not there. Saturday at 11:27pm  

So-called Bible Believer I believe the scriptures alone and not some man made theory on pagan fiery hell!! It suits well for you people to believe some substance of God out of scriptures, the pagan trinity!! What more!! Keep believing till you learn!! Good Night!! 23 hours ago · 

Chan Wang Tak This KJV verse is not meant for So-called Bible Believer who believes another bible : Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. Cheers! 16 hours ago  

So-called Bible Believer OK, so the lake of fire and brimstone cannot destroy something? What sort of KJV fire is that? I thought fire is able to destroy every bit of anything you put into it!! And mind you Chang, I refer KJV too which has more errors than the other translations. May be you people like to read errors more to support your erroneous doctrines!! Good luck for your Cheers!! 14 hours ago · 

Chan Wang Tak  Dear So-called Bible Believer, KJV has more errors than other translations. That shows you have been believing what other people tell you. You are not a researcher. You are also a strange species of "bible-believer" when you cannot read and understand t...he words "tormented day and night for ever and ever". You did not check back to find that the 2 beasts are to be thrown into the lake 1000 yrs before satan, and are still there burning and being tormented when the devil is thrown in later. You believe the bible only in the way you have been brainwashed to understand it. It is not your understanding. Heck, it is not your misunderstanding even. You inherited it from others. 7 hours ago

 

So-called Bible Believer  Can you show me a fire in which any object can stay for ever and ever.......!! If you have reasons pour in, and don't worry about my understanding or believing. I have much better foundation than you. You people speak of all words that will... not be found in scriptures and yet find fault in others understanding!!

You read the book of revelation literal wherein you will find even a beast being burned and tormented!! Any logic of a beast to be tormented? Please don't prove your understanding by quoting Revelation, which I'll prove you will be a BIG ZERO!! 7 hours ago · 

Chan Wang Tak  The sun? Gotcha! Anyway, that's not the point. The point is you claim you are bible believer when you are not. You use your own fallacious reasoning to over ride God's word. Incidentally Jesus also said that the fire is everlasting, re...: Mat 25:41 and when Jesus says so, I believe. You don't. Anyway I am answering you here only because I don't want other readers to be confused. I am sure they will check out the truth for themselves. I am not answering you not for the purpose of convincing you. You are beyond convincing because of the hardness of your heart; only the Holy Spirit can. Stay blind. Your choice. 6 hours ago

 

So-called Bible Believer Instead of proving a point you start judging others about their belief. Nothing more you know because you are all a team of hell mongers. Preserve your fire it will be useful for you to sit in!! I have long before left the idiotic belief wh...ich you have now. You are not answering here, you are still judging!! Be in your everlasting fire theory, hell mongers!! I am astonished to see only one constant liker for your silly comments which doesn't prove anything other than describing my faith!! I still say you will be a BIG ZERO in revelation!! 5 hours ago ·

 

Golda J We all do this to save you from hell fire!! So what about Matt 25:41?  5 hours ago ·

  

So-called Bible Believer There is one who has already saved me from hell (grave). so I am not interested in your assistance, you are all hell mongers, I know!! If you can understand Christ thru some "everlasting fire" that's your way of understanding, please excuse me, I understand the love of God thru Christ and I preach that!!

So-called Bible Believer ‎//Full time ministry should be done only if God specifically ask us to do// VSK and SSS are role models, perhaps!! Which God specifically asked them to do "Full time ministry"? At least not the God of scriptures, because he does not want characters of these sort!!  4 hours ago ·

 

Chan Wang Tak Hmmm. "Everlasting" doesn't mean everlasting. Yet you say you are a bible believer. "For ever" doesn't mean for ever. That's another great way to believe. And when you cannot explain or defend yourself, hurl names and insults. That's a great way to discuss things, too. Need I say more?4 hours ago ·

 

So-called Bible Believer You need not say anything more, cause I don't want to listen to your silly arguments which I left years back!! Please preach to those who have ears to hear you and not the scriptures!! So what were you doing so far? Describing my faith and ...belief, and now what's that? When it comes to you you start crying of hurling names and insults!! Please refer your previous comments and you can see that every first statement would be dedicated to my faith and belief!! You want to twist the facts and so you attack my faith and belief and my understanding. If that suits you, this too should suit you!! Good bye Mr Chan and God Bless you, the God of Scriptures and not the god of Hell mongers!! 4 hours ago · 

Chan Wang Tak You really have a great way to believe by unbelieving. Great way to end a discussion you cannot uphold too. Cheers, So-called Bible Believer. Like I said, I wasn't trying to convince you, just wanted those who read what you wrote to read also the truth so that they can choose. Cheers.  3 hours ago ·

 

So-called Bible Believer  If you really want to teach someone, please go ahead with your pagan faith!! And please don't again try to convince me. You have many threads to start teaching. And if you think you have "Chosen" some truth, I would say, I have left that lo...ng years back, and am into biblical truth!! My belief is in One God of the scriptures and not a trinity of some pagan origin!! So please Cherish and enjoy and grow in your faith and believes and just leave me alone!! I am quite satisfied in what I am!!

Chan Wang Tak So So-called Bible Believer, you have become steadfast in your faith in another gospel, another Jesus and an another spirit which is not the Holy Spirit. 2Co 11:4 For if he that cometh preacheth *another Jesus,* whom we have not preached, or if ye receive **another spirit,** which ye have not received, or *another gospel*, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.    

So-called Bible Believer  The Gospel does not have a word trinity or triune in it and if you think this is that other Gospel, well I am very much into your other Gospel. I have scriptures which state that Christ is Son of God more than n times, and if you think that... is the other Gospel, well I am very comfortable with what you call the other Gospel!! And I am least bothered about what you preach, what you have received and all that nonsense stuff!! I hope your followers or likers may be happy to listen to you or read your comments, I will be the last one!! You always meet cults, you always have encounters with JW or likes, so you think you have jumped out of some heaven? Please stop preaching me and I think that is enough!!  2 hours ago 

·

Chan Wang Tak This is not for So-called Bible Believer. I am NOT preaching to you. This is for other readers. You cannot be preached to. // 2Co 4:4 (For) the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them. // The bible does not have the word "bible" either.  2 hours ago ·

 

So-called Bible Believer Height of comedy folks!! If somebody is worshiping bible as trinity, then Chan might have impressed you with his intelligent finding!!  2 hours ago ·

Chan Wang Tak ‎(For) if he that cometh preacheth *another Jesus,* whom we have not preached, or if ye receive **another spirit,** which ye have not received, or *another gospel*, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him. The god of this world has surely blinded the minds of some, so that they think their "god" is the God of the bible.  about an hour ago ·

 

Chan Wang Tak So blind that they learn English and yet understand not English as English is read.  59 minutes ago · 

So-called Bible Believer Those who are blinded will never follow the God of the scriptures!! They follow a unscriptural triune god!! I believe and preach Christ as Son of God. But if you follow a triune God you cannot preach thus!!  55 minutes ago ·

 

Chan Wang Tak  This explanation is NOT for So-called Bible Believer. It is meant for those who might be confused by what his mind fails to understand. The mystery of the substance of God is a true mystery. Luke 4 clearly says Jesus is to be "called" the Son o...f God. Jehovah is the first and the last. So is Jesus. Jehovah is El Gibbor. So is Jesus. God raised Jesus. Jesus raised Himself. The Holy Spirit raised Jesus. Jehovah alone is the savior, yet Jesus is also the savior. Jehovah is the Lord of Lords, so is Jesus. Still cannot get it? No wonder it is called a mystery. It sure is a mystery to some.   49 minutes ago ·

 

Chan Wang Tak If you cannot understand, you cannot understand. Simple to the childlike believer, complex to the unbelieving believer  48 minutes ago

 

So-called Bible Believer   The oversmarts understand something which is not available in scriptures. Chan Wang Tak, enough of your nonsense preaching and teaching. Jehovah is El-Sheddai and Christ is El-Gibbor!! Ok.

Isaiah 9:6: Mighty God is El Gibbor!!

Gen 28:3 G...od Almighty is El Sheddai!!

Go to school before becoming a teacher!! And never try to underestimate others and overestimate yourself!! A Childlike believer may fall into your trap of teaching El Gibbor is Jehovah and So is Jesus theory and things of this sort!! God is not a God of confusion which you term as mystery!! If he is a mystery to you, you are into pagan worship!!  40 minutes ago ·

 

Chan Wang Tak Gotcha again!! Again, this verse is NOT for the unteachable. This verse is to show readers that the unteachable do not research. Here is just one of the verses that say that Jehovah is El Gibbor Mighty God. Jer 32:18 Thou shewest lovingkindness unto thousands, and recompensest the iniquity of the fathers into the bosom of their children after them: the Great, the Mighty God, the LORD of hosts, is his name.  30 minutes ago ·

 

Chan Wang Tak   That is why Christians must learn to read the bible on their own and do their own research instead of depending on others to teach them. Do not depend on reading magazine articles and circular letters either. Cults always use these materia...l to control what their members are to learn, to prevent members from learning the truth on their own by reading the bible. While we do learn from others' teachings and reading materials, we are spoon-fed a lot of nonsense. We then believe these nonsense and try to defend nonsense and end up being put to shame by the word of God.  24 minutes ago  

So-called Bible Believer   There is nothing wrong for an Almighty to be called a Mighty, but a Mighty cannot be Almighty!! Jehovah may be called El-Jibbor, but Christ as Mighty God cannot be El-Sheddai!! 14 minutes ago 

Chan Wang Tak   ‎???? That's a lame argument, don't you think? Ingeniously lame.  a few seconds ago  

Chan Wang Tak   When your arguments drops to this level, it is time to do some research on your own. Bye bye. It is 2 am here. I am going to sleep.

And so we see how blinded Mr. So-called Bible-Believer is.  Only the Holy Spirit can change him. But then, he does not believe in the Holy Spirit.  To him the Holy Spirit is an “it”.

He has obviously believed in another Jesus, another gospel and another spirit that 2Co 11:4 warned us about.  And whoever preaches another gospel is accursed!

Gal 1:8  But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. 

And surely as Jesus says in John 8:32, "And ye shall know the truth and the truth shall make you free."