Wednesday, October 19, 2011

Of Joseph Prince and “His” defenders

When The Blind Lead The Blind, Shall They Not Fall Into The Ditch?

You may also like to read:

Do you know why I had put “His” above in a capital letter?  Well, it does look like he is a god and idol to his believers. They will struggle to defend him with drilled-in clichés, and statements.  I see exactly the same behavior in the Jehovah Witnesses and Mormons who come to my door.  It is always something like this,

" Noo! you do not seem to understand what he is saying ..." or  "Ohh! you must listen to the complete sermon first". And when you say you have done so, they counter,  "Have you finished listening to the whole series?"

Sounds familiar? That is a standard cult respond technique!  Try talking to any Jehovah Witness and you will know.

I have often been asked about Joseph Prince.  Sandy just did so, too last Thursday.  “What do you think about Joseph Prince”?  And I will usually reply in these terms, “He’s a false teacher.  Be careful.  He mixes truths with untruths, confuses you by saying contradictory things on the same topic in different ways so that you will believe both positions without questioning further”.

Anyway, today while googling for “Ananias” and “Saphira” for information, I came across this blog, Daniel's Place, with this article “Joseph Prince vs the Bible”, which speaks out against his ( small h because Daniel is not his believer ); and this one, A Review Of A Book Review (Destined To Reign), His believer who wrote a well-written doting review of a horrible book.


These are the things that dawned on me about the doting believers in their god:

1)     They do not know how to catch those contradictory positions, because Joseph Prince is a good speaker and masterful with words
2)     They have blinkered understanding of scriptures, their understanding having been confined to what their god has said
3)     They also possess the canned definition of biblical terms and phrases, drilled into their heads by false teachers – not being of the Holy Spirit.


Ananias and Saphira and the Joseph Prince Boo-boo
Let’s talk about Ananias and Saphira ( Acts 5) and see how the defenders defend their mighty god.  On page 57 of his book Destined to Reign ( please don’t buy, just borrow a copy from one of the unfortunate souls who did ), Joseph Prince – an international pulpit speaker with a following of tens of thousands had this to say to the question in italics:

    But Pastor Prince, didn’t God punish King David for his sin and he lost his child?”

    Don’t forget that David, like Elijah, lived before the cross of Jesus. You will never find an example of God punishing a believer for his sins in the new covenant.  Let’s study the scriptures for ourselves and not just go by what other people are saying.

The above is reproduced without errors and omissions.

Well, he obviously does not read the bible and did not know about Ananias and Saphira episode.  What?? An international preacher who does not read the bible?  Cari makan ma!  (just earning a living ) What a boo-boo for an international bible “teacher”.  Maybe someone has pointed it out to him by now and he is desperately trying, or has given up trying to find a way to properly explain that boo-boo.  Why, even many of the new believers I asked can immediately answer that God did punish Ananias and Saphira under the new covenant.


KingDavid Blog Tries To Rescue His god
Well, Joseph Prince does not have to worry.  His doting believers will come to his rescue!  So here's the idiot well-writen bad review of his god’s book that goes: 

Malcolm has written a good post comparing Ananias of Acts 5 and Ananias of Acts 9, see here.  From the Bible, the Ananias of Acts 9 was descibed as “there was a disciple named Ananias” but the Ananias of Acts 5 was descibed as “But there was a certain man named Ananias who,”  Comparing it side-by-side, the subtle difference is as night & day; a disciple verse a certain man. In addition, notice also the But in Acts 5; that will mean that it is contrasting to a previous subject. So let’s go back to Acts 4, and we see this: For instance, there was Joseph, the one the apostles nicknamed Barnabas (which means “Son of Encouragement”). He was from the tribe of Levi and came from the island of Cyprus. He sold a field he owned and brought the money to the apostles. Acts 4:36-37   The apostles had apparently endorsed this Joseph, thus, I am very certain that Ananias and Sapphira were not true believers. ( Emphasis are mine )

If the above logic is correct, then we must also conclude that when the bible says “there was a certain man”, it is means that he subsequently changed his sex, or that Joseph was Joseph only for a time!  See the semantic inconsistency?  Acrobatics with words. That’s what blind believers and false teachers do.  Idol worshipers argue for the sake of defending their god and idol, not on truth and logic.  The error he made is so bad that his disciple must now twist the scripture to say that Ananias and Saphira are not believers!  How desperate!




KingDavid Blog Makes Another Vain Defence
In the passage immediately following the above, the writer continues, ( in his effort to defend his god’s doctrine of superabundant grace ):

Although a common ideology, I cannot find it anywhere in the Bible that says the Holy Spirit convicts believers of their sin ( emphasis mine ). What I found is this: because our gospel came to you not simply with words, but also with power, with the Holy Spirit and with deep conviction. 1 Thessalonians 1:4 (NIV)  but when I checked the other translation, I like it better: For when we brought you the Good News, it was not only with words but also with power, for the Holy Spirit gave you full assurance that what we said was true.  1 Thessalonians 1:4 (NLT)  The conviction here is actually of comforting assurance, how lovely.

The false teacher does not know, and his believer naturally does not know. And further you marvel at the comments of the readers of KingDavid blog, with their doting comments.  Jesus said, Can the blind lead the blind? Will they not both fall into the ditch?”.

Why did the author of the blog need to make such a fool of himself?  It is because his god wrote in page 134 of that horrible book, Destined to Reign, these words:

The bottom line is the Holy Spirit never convicts you of your sins. He NEVER comes to point out your faults.  I challenge you to find a scripture in the bible that the Holy Spirit has come to convict you of your sins.  You won’t find any.  (Emboldened and CAPITALISED in the original )


Okay-lah then, I meet your challenge-lah!   It is in Joh 16:8-lah, bodoh!:

And when He has come, He will convict the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:

That is what happens when Christians become followers of man and not God.  Observe that the above review writer is a scripture-quoting Christian who also has an excellent command of the English language.  This is why I say that Joseph Prince is so smooth with his words that he can encourage you to sin on the one hand without you feeling convicted if you agree, then at the same time preach that a true believer will live a holy life.  This is what a false preacher is good at, and fools will come to his defense.


What about LLC
Like others, this fellow is a sincere believer of Jesus, and a Joseph Prince fan.  He struggles to sort out his confused state of understanding, gropes for words to defend his idol and expresses some frustration, demands the writer Daniel refrain from saying certain things,  but finally he came to terms somewhat with the stand of Daniel against false teachings.  I think he able to come to that stage because he has not been mesmerized too much, not being a member of the church of that false teacher.

As for the other defenders of their god, like that guy Phil, I leave you to read his efforts at defending his god for yourself.  He just cannot see through the double-speak preaching of Joseph Prince, slippery and 2-edged.

But Daniel has got it right about Joseph Prince.


A good church is not measured by the size of its membership, the charisma of its pastor, much less the beauty, completeness of facilities and comfort of its building.  It is measured by the truth that it preaches, that does not lead you to stray away from the Lord even as you think you are following Him.  For surely, 

Mat 7:13  Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:



Your choice.

Jesus says in John 8:32, "And ye shall know the truth and the truth shall make you free."





21 comments:

  1. I have not read "His" book and only came to know more of him via comments by bro Tommy.

    In this day and age, men with the pride of life and lust of the eyes will emerge. And the warnings of Jesus Christ of false teachers cannot be more true at this time. Thanks for the latest updates.

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  2. What really astounds me is that so many "intelligent" people can allow themselves to be fooled, and boy! do they get upset with you for pointing out the false teachings to them!

    As the bible says, "the day will come when men will not endure sound doctrine".

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  3. Good. Bagus bagus artikelnya.
    God Bless All

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  4. Part 1: :)

    Firstly, I will like to say that I am not a follower of any man, and just a sincere seeker of the truth. I picked up the book "Destined to Reign" by Joseph Prince at the beginning of this week and after reading through the first time I was also astounded that the "Ananias and Sapphira" story could not have been in the writer's mind when he said "you will never find an example of God punishing a believer for his sins in the new covenant"

    I searched online for "the truth about ananias and sapphira" and came across a video on youtube where the writer, Joseph Prince, actually speaks about the motives of these two sinister individuals and the fact that they were not believers in the first place. That didn't satsify me as I needed proof that these two, Ananias and Sapphira (AnS) where indeed not believers. So, I asked God to reveal the truth of the matter and sure enough he did:

    If you read the events leading up to the AnS saga you will read the following:

    "31 And when they had prayed, the place was shaken where they were assembled together; and they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and they spake the word of God with boldness.


    32 And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any of them that ought of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common."
    Acts 4:31-32 (KJV)

    This group were all filled with the Holy Spirit and they considered all the possessions as each others as is evident in the word. We also see from the following scriptures that they sold their possessions and handed it to the Apostles who distributed according to each man's needs:

    "34 Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold, 35 And laid them down at the apostles' feet: and distribution was made unto every man according as he had need."
    Acts 4:34-35 (KJV)

    The above illustrates the events leading up to the AnS story which is essential to understanding why AnS where dealt with severely. Now, let's look at what the word says about AnS:

    "1 But a certain man named Ananias, with Sapphira his wife, sold a possession, 2 And kept back part of the price, his wife also being privy to it, and brought a certain part, and laid it at the apostles' feet. 3 But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land? 4 Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God."
    Acts 5:1-4 (KJV)

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  5. Part 2:

    Now, look at this: before these events all where filled with the Holy Spirit and there was a real sense of giving, generosity and oneness among all of them. Although they had it all because "none lacked" they chose to sell their possessions anyway.

    However, AnS who also sold a possession felt it necessary to hold back a portion of what they received. Why will they hold back what was already theirs? They could have left, taken the proceeds and went on a holiday or they could have just not sold the possession at all. They were obviously the type who loved money because if they were truly motivated by the Holy Spirit they would have not held anything back. Their motives to get into the inner-circle were sinister and this was an act of trying to gain the trust of the others.

    You see if they were in fact filled with the Spirit as the others they would have given freely and Peter clearly says "why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost". Tell me something: can the Holy Spirit lie to the Holy Spirit? Of course not! AnS did not have the Holy Spirit as they were NOT BELIEVERS.

    It is clear to me from the above that these sinister two had evil motives and they were certainly not believers.

    Getting back to the book by Joseph Prince (JP), I believe you cannot go around calling someone a false teacher when this statement he made "you will never find an example of God punishing a believer for his sins in the new covenant" is clearly targeted to believers and not AnS who were not believers at all.

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    1. Compare what you concluded about Ananias and Sapphira with King David. When the Spirit of God was upon David, he continued to fail God and conducted the census. He got the whole nation punished for his act. After that, he went on to have adultery with Bathsheba, and even has her husband killed to conceal that he was the father of Bathsheba unborn child. Remember that? Sometimes, we want to defend a situation or person but our sub-conscience is uncomfortable with it. Because of the discomfort, we deny our real intentions loudly so that we can convince ourselves that we are impartial; and then we go on to seek out a rationale to defend that situation, nonetheless. That's is what you are doing basically. But the scriptures tell you that your conclusion is in error. Anyway, your position is your choice.


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    2. You make a good point, no doubt. However, I speak not only from scripture but also from the knowledge that when I am in a company of believers and the Holy Spirit is strong upon us, the last thing on our minds is deceiving each other, let alone God's Spirit in us.

      "9 (For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth;)"
      Eph 5:9-10 (KJV)

      I really do not think it is possible for anyone who has just experienced God's Power and Grace and who has being filled with the Holy Spirit for the first time in their lives to harbour any evil toward the growth of the good news they just heard, unless they were unbelievers.

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  6. Part 3:

    Secondly, I really think your critique of the book and the man has no merit since you found it necessary to quote a scripture regarding the Holy Spirit convicting one of sins that is already quoted in the book and explained in-depth. If you pick up the book and read it critically you will soon see why he says what he says about the Holy Spirit not convicting believers of sin but rather of righteousness.

    Thirdly, this guy King David has completely lost me in his logic and trying to explain "controversial" aspects of the book. I venture to not judge his motives but there is certainly monetary gain involved.

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    1. You failed to explain what is meant by the Holy Spirit convicting the world of sin and how the Holy Spirit does not convict believers of sin. you mean a believer can therefore sin and the Holy Spirit will not bother to convict him? Your opinion, if not supported by rationale makes you appear as if you are parroting spoon-fed positions. Are you sure you do not judge when the sentence continues with "but there is certainly monetary gain involved"!!?? My friend, you have expressed judgement.

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    2. Yes, I did hastily judge "King David", but after reviewing the referral links in his sidebar I now see that there is no monetary gain to be had... he is indeed a book lover who is sincere.

      With regard to the Holy Spirit convicting the world of sin, I already made my point in the comment. If you have indeed read the book you will know the answer to your own question but you clearly have not taken the time to examine each chapter critically, which I believe is essential, especially if you making your beliefs about a doctrine and a person public.

      You have taken up a serious task to call-out false teachers and doctrines and there is now a responsibilty placed on you by yourself to ensure what you are doing exposes those who are in fact false, and that in itself requires you to study and read every doctrine critically with the guidance of the Holy Spirit and the shelving of your own notions of what the true Gospel is, or isn't.

      Truth can easily be lost or tainted when one evaluates from a preconceived perspective of what truth is. I myself come from a Full Gospel background and accepting some of the teachings in the book has led me on a new path of discovery where I am questioning my own beliefs that have been challenged by the book.

      I am not accepting or rejecting eveything I read based on what I feel or what I thought I believed, I am taking each area that challenges my old way of thinking and handing it to God and delving in the scriptures with the help of God to uncover truth.

      Imagine for one second that you are wrong about this doctrine? Don't you think you then become the one spreading a lie and you may in fact cause others to stray from the truth (if this is in fact truth).

      This is something you have endeavored to do so at least take the time to actually study what is taught before pointing figures.

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    3. Thank you for being frank. That's what we all should be doing. I remember arguing with my mentor as a young Christian 10 yrs ago on the matter of the Holy Spirit and the truth. And the point was very simple. Both of us were filled with the Spirit, yet we had such opposing understanding on certain scriptures. So, since the Spirit does not lie, one of us has attributed our own understanding to the leading of the Holy Spirit. Therein, you see the self deception so prevalent among "spirit-filled" Christians. In this line, many spirit-filled Christians are also totally convinced by the likes of Benny Hinn, Todd Bentley or Harold Camping. Yes, you and I may be filled with the Holy Spirit, but that does not mean that you and I hears and obeys the Spirit on all matters and at all times. This, you have failed to grasp. Joseph Prince speaks engages in double-speak forked tongue. "Beware!" is all I can say to you. If you feel you are blessed by him, bless you again.

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  7. Part 4:
    Finally, I read the book a second time around because the whole AnS aspect did trouble me during the first read and I ended up not giving my full attention to the following chapters but after the second read I can say I have truly being blessed.

    The essence of the book points to Jesus, his Grace and the finished work of the Cross. It explains the power of our believing in Jesus' finished work and how that very act positions us as righteous before God continually, regardless of how many times we may stumble. He portrays Jesus as the abundant Grace that will supply all our needs and that Grace alone is all one needs to discover a Victorious life as it is Grace that suffocates the fleshly part of us and brings us to a place where we are victorious over sin through Jesus Christ.

    Grace tainted with the Law is what causes people to stumble as it brings condemnation and makes the believer feel unworthy. It is the law that kills but God's Grace is what gives life. He shows us the power of Grace and how it can lead us to understand God's unconditional Love for His children which will cause us to gravitate toward the Lord Jesus and the Father without condemnation because in Jesus there is no condemnation.

    JP is just fulfilling his call as a preacher of Grace in its purest form and the result has being exorbitant growth of the body of Christ and in particular the church which he is the pastor in. This is congruent to what we see when people accepted Jesus as their Saviour and His Grace in their lives to overcome sin through the Blood of Jesus and the finished work - this is seeing in Acts and beyond.

    It is true that many false churches are in the mega-mold but it is also true that God's virgin church can also be found in this mold. They both grow side-by-side and it takes the Spirit of truth to lead us to the true church. If the Hoply Spirit leads us into all truth why wouldn't a church where truth is preached be bursting at the seams with people?

    Many people look at the bigger churches and automatically assume something isn't right. Thousands followed Jesus when He walked the earth and many more thousands were saved in the early church and beyond so I don't see this as some sort of anomaly.

    With regard to money, I think it is prudent to point out that it is said in the scriptures:

    "14 Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel."
    1 Cor 9:9-14 (KJV)

    I think this area of money hinders the Gospel because people do not want to see Pastor's taking in big salaries and I do agree that the bigger the salary the greater the temptation to serve money instead of God. Paul mentioned that this can be a problem earlier in the scripture qouted above, here it is:

    "Nevertheless we have not used this power; but suffer all things, lest we should hinder the gospel of Christ."
    1 Cor 9:12 (KJV)

    He was talking about reaping monetarily from the work they put in and clearly says they did not do this "lest we should hinder the gospel of Christ". He did warn about this so it isn't any surprise that people automatically discount a church or preacher when it or he sparkles too much. I really think all people should sincerely seek truth and the Spirit of truth will lead us into all truth. The Holy Spirit will help you in this regard.

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  8. It is certainly heartening to see your desire for all people to sincerely seek truth. And the Holy Spirit does certainly lead people to the truth IF they SINCERELY seek it. IF, and with sincerity. Unlike you, I have no problem with pastors getting big salaries. So what if the church members can afford it and give it willingly? Is it not their money? I only have problem with pastors (1)using devious means to arm-twist big salaries out of threatening believers with loss of blessings if they do not give specific amounts as with the Law of Moses. (2) teaching people to give more money to God in order to tempt God to give even more money back, which smacks of covetousness and giving with wicked motives. As for the matter of grace, see if you know where to draw the line between conditional and unconditional grace.

    As I said, if you feel blessed by Joseph Prince, bless you. Many people feel blessed by the devil, too. Your choice. This blog is not meant to convince people. It is meant to warn and bring awareness.

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  9. Well, i dont why you like to complain about some preachers. I dont whether you do it so that you can feel good about yourself. The way you come with this story shows that something is not right with your heart. Although you see some preacher does not fit with your own understanding, does not mean you need to publish and make people to follow your own thinking. Please learn to appreaciate and learn about respect. Thanks.

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    1. Dear Anonymous, The right thing for you to do would be to point out to us where I have accused your idol wrongly. That way, I would be able to repent from my wrong. But you have not done so.

      So, are you able to accept the challenge?

      For a fact, the bible shows us clearly that false teachers are named and condemned. But can I be sure you are a bible reader? Read this:

      1Ti 1:18 This charge I commit to you, son Timothy, according to the prophecies previously made concerning you, that by them you may wage the good warfare,
      1Ti 1:19 having faith and a good conscience, which some having rejected, concerning the faith have suffered shipwreck,
      1Ti 1:20 of whom are Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom I delivered to Satan that they may learn not to blaspheme.

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  10. "Okay-lah then, I meet your challenge-lah! It is in Joh 16:8-lah, bodoh!:

    And when He has come, He will convict the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:"

    pretty angry post, but I guess this is what happens when you feel God is angry with you

    oh by the way, you forgot to quote the rest of the verse when you were ending this zealous tirade of yours, here allow me

    John 16:9

    9 Of sin, because they believe not on me; (obviously, the sinner)

    10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more; (obviously, the believer)

    11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged. (the Holy Spirit witnesses to us that the devil is defeated)

    thank God that the Lord Jesus included that extra verse to clarify, or we would all be subject to a continued onslaught of works based righteousness, whcih would make the promises of God to no effect

    oh yea, and smile ... Jesus loves you, you souldnt take yourself so seriously

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  11. Dear Anonymous, I must admit that you have a good point there that John 16:9 appears to be speaking of convicting non-believers of their sins because they have yet to believe in Jesus. But does it appear strange to you in any way that there are plenty of sinners out there who are not at all convicted by the Holy Spirit?

    Try to see the any bible teaching in its full context. And here's something for you to mull over.
    1Jn 1:9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

    1) Note the "IF", and turn the sentence the other way. What if we slot in the words "do not" before the word confess? What does it sound the other half sound like? Will there be forgiveness? Of course not.
    2) Now, the book of 1John is obviously speaking to believers! And believers are told to confess their sins. Would they be able to confess their sins if they are not convicted by the Holy Spirit? Of course not. Therefore, the Holy Spirit does convict believers of their sins after all!

    I do understand that it is hard to speak against your own idol, whether the idol is a man or a fallen spirit. I do take God's word seriously, very seriously. Jesus loves you too, and wants you to take His truth seriously.





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  12. That's right! I do hate untruths and scripture twisting. Jesus hate untruths, too. Don't you?

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  13. I am not the anonymous above. I was against JP. Now I don't go around being critical of him. But neither do I go around "evangelizing JP" And boy do i have lots to say about false preachers and still do. I am also uncomfortable about big churches and snazzy works. However let us not forget, we could be the self righteous pharisee and the one with the big plank in our eyes could be ourselves. Got to be cautions here.

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    1. You are expected to judge ... and to judge those inside the church ... you are not to judge them that are outside of it!

      "1Co 5:12 For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?
      1Co 5:13 But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person. "

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