Is Jesus Christ also the Father? Part 1

Word Twisting By Theologians

Read also:
Is Jesus Christ also the Father? Part 2

If, at the end of reading this you do not agree with me, fine! I will appreciate it though if you care to reason against me, scripturally.  If I am wrong, I am ready to stand corrected. 

I have been labeled a heretic for raising this matter once, and not by just one person.  So, am I really a heretic? All I know of myself is this: I am a bible-believing Christian.  Therefore, what does the bible say about the matter is what matters.  But then, do Christians really believe the bible, or do Christians believe the theologians and their acrobatical word-twisting?  Actually, you will find that Christians choose to believe more in falliable man then our infalliable God.  Christians believe theologians know better than God.  It is the theologians who interpret God to them since God is incapable of revealing Himself.

Now, theologians have firmly established their limited (not God's ) and inviolable doctrine of the Trinity as depicted in the diagram below :

This is summarized ( in my own untrained and simple way ) as : “There is ONE God. This God has shown Himself in 3 separate forms, i.e. as the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.  All  3 are distinct persons, and one is not the other, yet all three are that ONE God”.  This, I too believe. And therefore, am I not a believer in the concept of the Trinity?  Yes, I am.

Now, to the theologians, to say that the Son is actually also the Father, or the Holy Spirit is the Son and also the Father is blasphemy.  Some theologians even say that if we do not accept their interpretation of the Trinity, then we will go to hell.  Well, the bible did not say that. The theologians did, and they have made themselves god.  As far as I know, the bible tells me that the way to heaven is to believe in Jesus and to obey Him.  It does not say that to disbelieve the theologians, one can go to hell.

Now, why was I called a heretic?  It is all because I showed them this verse in the bible, viz:-

Isa 9:6  For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

WHAT ???? The bible says the son ( which everybody agrees is Jesus ) shall be called the everlasting Father?  So, what have the great theologians with their beautifully framed certificates to say?  What do the bible college -trained pastors and teachers have to say to that?  Well, some just go silent and hmm and hum their way around.  Others immediately go into a mild hysteria, snarl and accuse me of heresy ( Hey! Explain the verse!  I did not put that verse into Isaiah’s mouth. God did!) And the more gracious ones do the acrobatic semantics with me.  “ Ah …my friend, you fail to understand ( hidden meaning "you are stupid").  You must read the Hebrew word ( hidden meaning "I am trained, and you are not, that's why you are stupid" ).  The original word does not mean father as in the case of father.  It means something else.  You see, Abraham was also called the father of faith.  That’s the father meant.  Jesus is the father of eternity, not God the Father.  Do you understand?”.  Well, so says one white-man pastor in his email reply to my question.

No.  I don't see.  No, I don’t understand..  I only know that the Hebrew dictionary says that “awb” (refer to H1 in the Strong’s dictionary, since you want to play the word game ) is the word for father, in the literal sense.   It appears 644 times in the King James Version, and it is the only word used to mean father.  So don’t you go round telling me your cock-and-bull invention and twisting of the word father.  Father is father. Period.  The bible says so.

You see, the theologians have made God into something lesser than the omnipotent Being that He is.  In their conceited logic, the Father can only be the Father, the Son can only be the Son, the Holy Spirit is the Holy Spirit.  And trinity is to be in this form only in their inviolable mighty opinion.  Their form of trinity is a limited form.  One cannot be the other, and yet they are all the same God.  But in their effort to protect their teaching, they deny the simple and obvious meaning of the word father in Isa 9:6, and go on to declare everybody who chooses to believe God and not them to be heretics. They gave themselves the power to send dissenters to hell.  To make themselves look academic, they even invented a word “Modalism” for describing Father, Son and Holy Spirit as being the one and the same.

But you are wrong.  The bible does say the son shall be called the everlasting Father, with a capitalized F.  My God is an omnipotent God.  He can do all things ( except to be unholy and unrighteous ).  The Father can be separate from the Son and the Holy Spirit, and yet He can be the all three at the same time.  He can do ALL things. This is the true Trinity - 3 separate persons, and one single person at the same time.  He can be modalistic and He can be separate. That’s is how incomprehensible His essence is, to my puny brain.  Can I understand how He can do that.  Of course I can’t.

And of course your less-than-omnipotent god cannot do what my Almighty God can do. My Almighty God is almighty.  Call me a heretic if you want.  I choose to believe the bible, in the word of God.  I choose not to believe you.

And neither do I agree with the Oneness Pentecostals who cannot see the distinctness of the the 3 separate manifestations.  I see both sides.  And whether a person understands the true essence of Trinity or not does not affect your salvation.  Salvation is by faith in the blood sacrifice through the person of Jesus.  Salvation is not by possessing the exact understanding of the essence of a big and mighty God who is outside my grasp.  If I cannot understand the concept of the 4th dimension, how can I understand the meaning of Him who is outside of all dimensions?

Over to you.

Jesus says, in John 8:32 “And you shall know the truth and the truth shall make you free.

Who is Jesus?

IS JESUS THE SON OF GOD?

I came across this comment on one of the news articles ( http://www.freemalaysiatoday.com/2011/08/19/perkasa-takes-a-swipe-at-muslim-leaders/) on the online news portal Free Malaysia Today.  It gives us an interesting angle on the truth that is in Jesus.  Christians would do well to take note, as most Christians do not really know how to defend the gospel against the objections of other religions.  The bible tells us to have a ready answer for the hope that we have.   Most Christians don't, and never bother to have ready answers.

Now, Muslims, who claim to worship the same Abrahamic God have many objections to Jesus, among which are:

1) God cannot have a son.  To claim that Jesus is the "Son of God" is to claim that God had sex with Mary, and gave birth to Jesus, and that is blasphemy.

2) Jesus is only a prophet, only a human being and nothing more than that.

3) Jesus never died on the cross ( although the Koran says otherwise ).  In fact, Jesus never died and has been taken into heaven directly.  ( Well, at least they agree that Jesus is still alive today!  What a confession! ).

Let us take a look at what the commentator wrote in response to a Muslim who thought that the testimony of a Nasir Siddiki about his conversion to Christianity is pure nonsense.  He wrote thus :

"Whatever your stand, remember Jesus loves you, too. Bible says Jesus came not to condemn the world ( John 3:17 ) for it was already condemned, but He came to open a way. Your sins, and mine deserves the eternal death sentence and a loving God came into the world as a human being to pay for the sins. It is a gift. When He was in this world, He took on a human name ...  born of a virgin to be sinless. Bible says "He will be called Son of God", it is a title, not the literal meaning.

1) Koran teaches all human beings are touched by satan at birth. Koran teaches that Je sus was not touched by satan at birth. Because He is not of human origin. Satan knows who He is. Yet you don't.

2) Koran agrees that all humans must die. Yet Koran agrees that Jesus is still alive! So the Koran knows that He is not of human origins.

3) Koran agrees that humans are born out of male and female sex. Yet Koran agrees that Jesus was born of a virgin - impossible for humans.

4) Koran says all humans are sinners. Yet Koran agrees that Jesus never sinned. So, He is not human.

If He is not of human origins, then what is He? I leave it to you to think for yourself."

The Objection That Jesus is the Son of God

Do you know that the Muslims are correct on this matter?  

Most Christians are blur-blur about who Jesus is ... especially at His being called "Son of God".  Since the Christians do not know the better, can we blame the Muslims for thinking that Christians are saying that God came down to have sex with Mary (  the Mormon cult of USA actually teaches this though! ) through the Holy Spirit in order to give birth to Jesus?  No, I don't blame the Muslims.  In any case, that is not what the bible teaches.  Come， Christians， let's read Luke 1:35 carefully, at the part where Gabriel announces the conception of Jesus to Mary,

Luk 1:35  And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

Yes, Jesus is NOT the Son of God by birth.  Jesus IS CALLED the Son of God by His pre-eminent status, with a capital 'S'.  Christians too, are CALLED sons of God, but with a small 's', and this status is granted through adoption.  What the Muslims did not consider is that Jesus is the "Son" by the way of a title.  Somehow, the Muslim mind is fixed that to be called a son, it must be through sexual relations!

Gal 4:4  But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law, Gal 4:5  To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.

So, Christians had better get the picture clear.  The term "Son of God" as applied to Jesus is titular.  He is the Son of God by title, not by birth. 

Who is Jesus?

How do you explain to a Muslim that Jesus is more than human?  Yes, He appeared on this earth as a human but how is He more than human?  Muslims claim He is only a prophet.  To them, it is blasphemy of the highest order (Syirik ) to call Jesus "God", for that means Christians worship 2 gods.  To explain who Jesus is through the bible would be a waste of time.  The average Muslim mind has been installed with a barrier against the bible from his youth. In addition, Muslims minds have been confused by the Roman Catholic practice of worshipping Mary.  Muslims have mistaken Mary for the 3rd person of the Holy Trinity.  They seem to think that the Trinity means 3 gods, with Mary being a part of the Trinity.  No thanks to the Roman Catholic pope for promoting Mary to a deity ( wonder where a sinful human got that authority to appoint anther human to godhood )  Anyway bible-reading Christians know that the Muslims are mistaken, and the Roman Catholics got it all wrong.

The best one can do is to point out who Jesus is from the book a Muslim cannot deny, i.e. the Koran.  And even then, since you are a infidel who is pointing something out to him in "his" Koran, he might even feel offended.  He might even chide you for quoting his Koran.  He does not realize that Muslim organizations put up online copies of the Koran for infidels to read.  But that's about the only way.

And so, the said commentator above did a very good job.  You see, hidden here and there in the Koran are gems of truth about who Jesus really is.  The commentator pointed out 4 truths in the Koran about human beings.  Yet Jesus does not fit into the category of humans, even though He was in this world as a human. According to Islam, the devil touches every human at his birth, except for Jesus; every human has sin, except Jesus!  No human can live forever, yet Jesus is still alive today! No human being can be born of a virgin except Jesus!  Surely, the Koran does point out that Jesus is more than human.  In fact, the Koran calls Jesus "Kallimatullah"  ( Surah 3:45 ), i.e. God's Word! and also "wa-ruhun-minhu" Sura 4:171, i.e God's Spirit!  Many Muslim scholars also refer to Jesus as Ruhullah.  These are also the titles for Jesus as recorded in the bible.  The Koran, which is some 6 centuries after Jesus confirms the bible's testimony of who He really is.

 

Now, if He is not human, then what is He? To be sure, no Muslim would insult Jesus by saying He is a demon.  If He is not human and He is not a demon, then He must either be an angel or God. 

That is all we can do to point out the truth.  Beyond that, it is up to the individual whether he is a truth seeker or just a religionist.

Is Jesus a prophet?

Of course Jesus is a prophet too.  He had the ability to prophesize, and His prophecies about the destruction of the Temple of Jerusalem was bang on target.  So too, many of His prophecies about false teachers and false prophets and false christs.  We know Jesus is God Himself who walked the earth.  Is it a big deal for God to be able to prophesize?  And how can God be on earth and yet be in heaven at the same time?  All I know is, my ALMIGHTY, OMNIPOTENT and OMNIPRESENT God can do all things.  He is beyond the control of the dimensions of matter, space and time, if you try to grasp the awesomeness of this.  Now, if a god cannot do all things, he is not almighty and omnipresent.  My God can. Can yours?

And Did Jesus die and resurrect?

Here is one of the biggest surprises you can find in the Koran.  You see, ALL Muslims are taught to deny that Jesus ever died.  ALL Muslims are taught that God replaced Him with somebody else at the last moment to die on the cross.  ALL Muslims are taught that Jesus has been taken up to God directly.  But, very few Muslims ever notice these verses in Surah 19:33-34 of the Koran that reported Jesus as saying:

 

 'And peace was on me the day I was born, and peace will be on me the day I shall die, and the day I shall be raised up to life again. That is Jesus, the son of Mary - the word of truth about which they are in dispute.'  

So, the Koran actually confirms that Jesus was born, did die and after he died he would be raised up again! Wow! And that He did!  Except that the average Muslim's mind is trained to ignore these verses.

It is also pointless to tell any Muslim to check on the historicity of the death of Jesus.  They will ignore the fact that two Jewish writers -- Philo ( 20 B.C. – A.D. 50) and Josephus ( A.D. 37-95) did record briefly about the death of Jesus.He will also ignore your challenge to them to check out the writings of Tacitus (ca. A.D. 60-120), a Roman historian, who wrote, saying the “Christians” derived their name from “Christus,” who “was executed at the hands of Pontius Pilate in the reign of Tiberius” (The Annals xv.44).    Yes, there are historical records, if you care to search for the truth.  Why won't the Muslim check?  I think it is most probably because if he does check and finds out that truth is not what he was taught , he doesn't know what he is supposed to believe anymore!  He would to lose everything in life ... everything ....  if he ever chooses to discard his teachings. 

Who judges the world?

And to what the commentator wrote, I have this to add.  Ask any Muslim who has the power to judge the world, and he will correctly answer you that God alone has the power to judge.  Ask any Muslim if Jesus is coming back again into this world, and he will truthfully say that Jesus, and not the Prophet Muhammad will be coming back.  Ask him, is it true that one of the things that Jesus would do when he comes back is to judge the world?  At this, most of them will stay silent.

Conclusion

It is neither your job nor mine, to try to argue and convince a Muslim to change what he wants to believe.  Our job is to defend Christianity by pointing out the truths.  It is for him to make up his own mind, just as it is with a Buddhist  or Taoist or a person from whatever religion.  It is for the Holy Spirit to touch that person, and then for the person to make his response to the touch of the Spirit.  He is a gentle spirit, and will not force anymore to act against his own will.

The bible says that we must have a ready answer for others.  1Pe 3:15 says, "But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:"

Now you have a ready answer.  Use it.

Did not Jesus say in John 8:32 "And ye shall know the truth and the truth shall make you free".?

                                                                       

A Gay Pastor? Surely You Jest!

A Practicing Gay Is No Christian!

Do not be deceived!  Do these "gays" not know that being a homosexual is wrong? They do! or else they would not change the term from "homosexual" to "gay".  They know that to be homosexual is bad, so they change it into "gay" to make it sound acceptable.  It is just exactly like changing word "murder" of unborn children to "abortion" to make it sound acceptable.

A very basic simple truth of the bible is this - the bible condemns sodomites and homosexuals!  God hates sodomy.  

Lev 20:13  If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

It is an abomination to God.  An abominable sin!  The episode of Sodom and Gomorrah makes it clear enough.

Yes, God does love all human beings.  But that does not mean God loves us for our sins.  God may love us even while we are still sinning.  Does not the bible say that Jesus came into this world to die for us while we were sinners!  But a holy God does not love sinners for the sin.  He died for sinners in order to save sinners out of sin.  And, the sinners who come to Jesus Christ MUST REPENT of their sins to be saved, for they were saved FROM their sins! They were not saved so that they can continue in it.  Therefore, if a homosexual comes to Christ, he is to REPENT ( i.e to say, STOP all his homosexual activities and live a holy life from then on ) in order to ensure that he is saved.  

But this “pastor” does not repent! He has not even repented. He continues to sin in homosexuality.  He even openly commits sodomy with this “marriage”!  So, he does not obey Christ.  A person who does not obey Christ cannot be a Christian!  He is anti-Christ - against Christ.  For Christ said in John 14:15  “If ye love me, keep my commandments.”  This abominable man does not keep the commandment of Jesus Christ to repent!  It is obvious that he has deleted these 3 verses out of his bible:

1Co 6:9  Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 1Co 6:10  nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. 

1Co 6:11  And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God. ( NKJV bible ).  

Clear enough?  It takes an idiot not to understand the above verses.  "Washed and sanctified" - to continue in homosexuality is to get oneself dirty again! What then is the use of the washing and sanctification? And it takes a "bent-on-sinning" and hardened heart to deny these verses.  So this pastor cannot be a Christian. He is just using Christianity to further a profession, to earn a good money out of people who want a “good-feeling lovey lovey” religion which at the same time allows them to enjoy all the worst of carnal lusts of the body.  He creates a niche market for himself.

Do not be deceived!  This man is no Christian, whatever he claims. Christianity is all about truth and the freedom to choose good and evil.  And good and evil is measured by God's unchanging standards, not the ever changing and fickle values of man.  For that reason, Christianity does not believe in using a body of falliable human beings to govern what is right or wrong. A believer who builds a DIRECT relationship with God will know this truth, because the Holy Spirit will guide him.  Because of this, Christianity IS NOT a religion.  Christianity is about a relationship with God, loving His Truth and WALKING in those truths.  Anybody and any body of people can claim to be Christian, there is no governing body of falliable humans to stop anyone from claiming to be so.  Which is why cults like the Jehovah Witnesses, 7^th Day Adventists, Mormons and the likes exist, and they put up a Christian front, use Christian terminologies and words ( using different definitions and meanings in order to deceive ) but disobey the commandments of Jesus.  They are not Christians, however much good works they do and polite they show themselves to be.

So too, with this abomination of a man.  The Word of God, in  1Cor 6-9-10 condemns this man and his followers.  Homosexuals and sodomites has no part of the Kingdom of God.  Period.  Only those whose lustful hearts yearn for homosexuality and those who have pleasure in them who do it ( see Roman 1:32)     will follow him.

Do not be mistaken.  God is not against any transgender or eunuchs.  God does not accept the homosexual behavior.    

Jesus says in John 8:32 “And ye shall know the truth and the truth shall make you free”.

 

--------------------------------------

Thursday, 11 August 2011 15:10

Gay Malaysian pastor to tie the knot with his partner

Written by  Malaysia Chronicle

KUALA LUMPUR - A Malaysian self-confessed gay pastor is to marry his African-American partner soon.
Press reports stated that Rev Ou Yang Wen Feng (pic) was likely to wed the Broadway musical producer by the end of the month or early September with ceremonies planned in New York and Malaysia.
Ou Yang told AFP in an interview in Hong Kong that his partner had popped the question on June 26, two days after New York City legalised same-sex marriages.
“He went to a church and wrote a song for me. He proposed at the end of the song in public,” the 41-year-old pastor said.
Ou Yang, who now serves at the Metropolitan Community Church (MCC) in New York, urged gay men and women to speak out to “break the vicious cycle” and help fight misconceptions about the gay community.
According to the MCC homepage, the church is part of an international movement of Christian churches reaching out to all, including homosexuals, bisexuals and transsexuals.
“When society discriminates against gay people, you only push gay people into the closet,” Ou Yang said.
Ou Yang’s “coming out” took place in 2006 when he published the story of his decision to make public his sexual orientation, after a nine-year marriage to his now ex-wife, whom he described as an “angel“.
“She asked for a divorce, and this is the biggest gift she could ever give me, she set me free. I owe her big time,” said the pastor who grew up in a conservative Christian family.
Several netizens praised Ou Yang, who has tattoos on his shoulder and arm, as the “most trendy pastor”. They said they had not spotted other pastors wearing ear-rings.
Some said he looked like Hong Kong actor David Wu and Chinese actor Chang Chen.
Ou Yang, a former columnist with Sin Chew Daily, said Kuala Lumpur was “growing and developing” with Sunday services and bible studies.
Ou Yang’s best friend, known only as Joe, was quoted by Guang Ming Daily as saying that he was happy for the couple.